Hans banning Ivan
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21 Jul 2013, 10:21 AM
#21
Posts: 1820 | Subs: 2
Petition 2013: Get Hans banned! x)
21 Jul 2013, 10:27 AM
#22
Posts: 928
The amount of ignorant people in this community, dear god. As said earlier, if you were in Hans position you woulnd't saying these things. It's the internet,I'm aware of that but constantly harassing someone is just plain dumb. After all he is stil human, right? And the rules of our society still stands. Ivan did this to himself and got what he deserved.
No-one's saying he shouldn't get banned for X amount of banter. A lot of us, though, are saying that the 2 wk ban from the game is simply just too harsh.
Had fun doing this earlier
21 Jul 2013, 10:34 AM
#23
Posts: 173
No-one's saying he shouldn't get banned for X amount of banter. A lot of us, though, are saying that the 2 wk ban from the game is simply just too harsh.
It's a game, a videogame.
21 Jul 2013, 10:39 AM
#24
Posts: 928
It's a game, a videogame.
At that level of play, quality and quantity, it's not so much a game anymore as it is a hobby. (I haven't hit it in both so for me, it's just a game)
I'll give you an example - Chess - it's only a game, yet its taken seriously by many people and they devote a large amount of time, even their whole lives to it. Hell, for some videogames, even SC2 and LoL. I don't think anyone here takes CoH that seriously, but you get my point anyway.
And also, if you just say that it's a game, then why is Hans getting really annoyed about it, claiming harrassment and all and threatening the banhammer for months now when he, as you suggest yourself, should take it calmly and just laugh it off, just like some members in the community?
One does not walk on both sides of the fence in an argument and expect it to work.
Had fun doing this earlier
21 Jul 2013, 10:41 AM
#25
Posts: 928
Keep in mind that I would not defend any trolling, I'm only concerned about the heavy-handedness of it.
Had fun doing this earlier
21 Jul 2013, 11:14 AM
#26
Posts: 1164
1) Yes, they do. Anyone can appeal. Even Relic only used the banhammer on when it was obvious. But the example you gave was a strawman.
2) Then can we see the supposed chat so that we can make up our minds, rather than us making assumptions?
I don't think it's particularly a secret on this site that the admins don't like COHEXPERTS (I'm not a member of any clan BTW, but it's pretty obvious what's going on here) and that's fair enough because they do troll a lot and have their banter so their dislike is somewhat justified. Forum warnings + bans from forum = fine, but that doesn't mean you take someone out completely from the game.
maybe it was obvious enough for relic so they pulled out the banhammer? also: not a strawman, since it is the exact same situation: someone violating the code of conduct.
as for evidence: just like with cheater replays, evidence is not presented in public. has always been like that.
Keep in mind that I would not defend any trolling, I'm only concerned about the heavy-handedness of it.
no, you also complained about no evidence being presented and no appeal being given. this is not a court of law, nor does it have to be. it's relics game, and they can pretty much do whatver the fuck they want.
21 Jul 2013, 11:15 AM
#27
Posts: 120
Yep, all true. Hans has never once bad mouthed the game, another player, a team mate, the map, or whatever unit is beating his unit. Oh wait, he routinely does all of that when he streams. Who here has never seen Hans blow a gasket on stream, raise your hand.
*crickets*
That's what I thought.
It is clear to everyone who is objective in the matter, Hans just doesn't like to lose on stream, as it is 'embarrassing'. Look what happened when he played Barton in the tourney. Hans said he was being stream sniped by Barton when EVERYONE KNOWS Hans had a 5 minute delay. Hans got beat two straight games, and Barton said, 'play tutorial" which he says TO EVERYONE, even his clan mates (like me)...So COH2 community, you have been warned. If you beat Hans, be prepared for a little, "time out". No Kappa, No mvgame. :/
*crickets*
That's what I thought.
It is clear to everyone who is objective in the matter, Hans just doesn't like to lose on stream, as it is 'embarrassing'. Look what happened when he played Barton in the tourney. Hans said he was being stream sniped by Barton when EVERYONE KNOWS Hans had a 5 minute delay. Hans got beat two straight games, and Barton said, 'play tutorial" which he says TO EVERYONE, even his clan mates (like me)...So COH2 community, you have been warned. If you beat Hans, be prepared for a little, "time out". No Kappa, No mvgame. :/
21 Jul 2013, 11:18 AM
#28
Posts: 3293
And also, if you just say that it's a game, then why is Hans getting really annoyed about it, claiming harrassment and all and threatening the banhammer for months now when he, as you suggest yourself, should take it calmly and just laugh it off, just like some members in the community?
who are you to decide what someone else should be or shouldn't be offended by.
Failure is always an option. 
It's a happy massacre?! (yes, yes it is!)
Caffeine illegal for WiFi's to ingest in 48 states, 2 colonies, and 1 providences. 
To make most awesome thing in universe combine Bears and Nicholas Cage! 
and remember kids, we didn't start the flame-war!
21 Jul 2013, 11:35 AM
#29
Posts: 928
who are you to decide what someone else should be or shouldn't be offended by.
You're absolutely right, I shouldn't.
Doesn't mean that banhammers should be chucked around just because someone is ^^.
"oh, i just synchacked this guy cause my cat died last week and i was feeling sad :-("
"well, okay then, no ban."
No, people should be able to appeal any ban. Always. This is not the kind of appeal that should get through, but people can be wrongly accused of hacking. Only when it's obvious do people get accused.
no, you also complained about no evidence being presented and no appeal being given. this is not a court of law, nor does it have to be. it's relics game, and they can pretty much do whatver the fuck they want.
If you want to be part of something that you invest a lot in but is very heavy handed, shouldn't you be a tad concerned? I don't think there's any way both of us can or will get banned from the game, but it is still something to be concerned about nonetheless.
EDIT: The last two quotes weren't from WIFIDI, they were from Paperplane
Had fun doing this earlier
21 Jul 2013, 11:40 AM
#30
Posts: 75
How can u even discuss so long about this
i sadly dont know how to set up a signature 
21 Jul 2013, 11:47 AM
#31
Posts: 1164
No, people should be able to appeal any ban. Always. This is not the kind of appeal that should get through, but people can be wrongly accused of hacking. Only when it's obvious do people get accused.
If you want to be part of something that you invest a lot in but is very heavy handed, shouldn't you be a tad concerned? I don't think there's any way both of us can or will get banned from the game, but it is still something to be concerned about nonetheless.
EDIT: The last two quotes weren't from WIFIDI, they were from Paperplane
those weren't from paperplane but from me.
and again: this is relics game, they can do whatever the hell they want. and i actually support their decision to not make bans appealable. why? simple: it's even more work put into the banning process, that could actually help make the game itself better, instead of having to ban assholes. every minute relic has to spend looking at replays/chat logs/stream highlights is a minute not spent on the actual game.
the "heavy handedness" is very, very, VERY relative. a 2 week ban is nothing that i would call harsh. at best, it's a wake up call.
also: if harassing/bullying people on the internet is your "hobby", there must be something going fundamentally wrong in your life.
21 Jul 2013, 11:51 AM
#32
Posts: 928
those weren't from paperplane but from me.
and again: this is relics game, they can do whatever the hell they want. and i actually support their decision to not make bans appealable. why? simple: it's even more work put into the banning process, that could actually help make the game itself better, instead of having to ban assholes. every minute relic has to spend looking at replays/chat logs/stream highlights is a minute not spent on the actual game.
the "heavy handedness" is very, very, VERY relative. a 2 week ban is nothing that i would call harsh. at best, it's a wake up call.
also: if harassing/bullying people on the internet is your "hobby", there must be something going fundamentally wrong in your life.
Isn't this something that the CMs do? So they do not have that much impact in game dev apart from giving feedback - which is no small task.
In any case, I believe that this has gone on for quite a bit so I'll probably stop here. For the most part, in any case, I'm not talking in terms of defending VonIvan - I do not know enough about his antics to make any judgement. I'm just talking as a concerned member of the community.
Had fun doing this earlier
21 Jul 2013, 11:52 AM
#33
Posts: 336
As a regular stream watcher of both HelpingHans and VonIvan I quite enjoyed the rivalry between those two players. VonIvan was verbally abusive towards HelpingHans, but this has very little to do with being able to play the actual game as it involves an argument between two adults.
Hans does promote his play as high skilled, which is fine, but should not be surprised if people consistently try to beat him. VonIvan has done this on several occassions.
Furthermore, it is inconsequent and not justified to suspend a single player as there are players out there that verbally abuse other players to a greater extent (Barton for example). By solely suspending VonIvan it is clear that Relic favors familiar faces. This means rules and regulations are not involved in this suspension, which causes injustice. Therefore, Relic should validate the complaints from HelpingHans and others on equal foot and apply proper procedures.
Hans does promote his play as high skilled, which is fine, but should not be surprised if people consistently try to beat him. VonIvan has done this on several occassions.
Furthermore, it is inconsequent and not justified to suspend a single player as there are players out there that verbally abuse other players to a greater extent (Barton for example). By solely suspending VonIvan it is clear that Relic favors familiar faces. This means rules and regulations are not involved in this suspension, which causes injustice. Therefore, Relic should validate the complaints from HelpingHans and others on equal foot and apply proper procedures.
There Used To Be Great Nullist Quotes Here.
21 Jul 2013, 12:02 PM
#34
Posts: 3293
As a regular stream watcher of both HelpingHans and VonIvan I quite enjoyed the rivalry between those two players. VonIvan was verbally abusive towards HelpingHans, but this has very little to do with being able to play the actual game as it involves an argument between two adults.
Hans does promote his play as high skilled, which is fine, but should not be surprised if people consistently try to beat him. VonIvan has done this on several occassions.
Furthermore, it is inconsequent and not justified to suspend a single player as there are players out there that verbally abuse other players to a greater extent (Barton for example). By solely suspending VonIvan it is clear that Relic favors familiar faces. This means rules and regulations are not involved in this suspension, which causes injustice. Therefore, Relic should validate the complaints from HelpingHans and others on equal foot and apply proper procedures.
since we don't have the exact details we don't know any of this is only speculation the only facts we have is that hans reported him and relic issued a ban that is all we know for a fact. and ofc alot of what was said between them to (as well as there own streams/fourms comments) but not all of it.
Failure is always an option. It's a happy massacre?! (yes, yes it is!) Caffeine illegal for WiFi's to ingest in 48 states, 2 colonies, and 1 providences. To make most awesome thing in universe combine Bears and Nicholas Cage! and remember kids, we didn't start the flame-war!
21 Jul 2013, 12:33 PM
#35
Posts: 1164
I do not know enough about his antics to make any judgement.
that's what i've been trying to tell you all along.
Furthermore, it is inconsequent and not justified to suspend a single player as there are players out there that verbally abuse other players to a greater extent (Barton for example). By solely suspending VonIvan it is clear that Relic favors familiar faces.
no, hans is just the only one that reported somebody to relic.
21 Jul 2013, 12:40 PM
#36
Posts: 928
@Crawler
Fair enough, Like I said, my concern was how harsh it was, regardless of how badly someone was getting trolled.
But me, if I were getting trolled, I would just laugh it off
Also, I am very concerned at the precedent this could set. I honestly don't mind trolls being around at COH2. It kinda does add to the community, as long as it doesn't get out of hand, which it doesn't seem to.
Fair enough, Like I said, my concern was how harsh it was, regardless of how badly someone was getting trolled.
But me, if I were getting trolled, I would just laugh it off
Also, I am very concerned at the precedent this could set. I honestly don't mind trolls being around at COH2. It kinda does add to the community, as long as it doesn't get out of hand, which it doesn't seem to.
Had fun doing this earlier
21 Jul 2013, 12:49 PM
#37
Posts: 336
no, hans is just the only one that reported somebody to relic.
Possibly, but abusive behaviour of certain players is known by Relic so the individual complaint of a familiar face leading up to a suspension causes injustice in comparison with non-suspended abusive players that nobody officially complained about. One complaint of harrasment is never grounded reason for suspension.
There Used To Be Great Nullist Quotes Here.
21 Jul 2013, 12:53 PM
#38
Posts: 3293
Possibly, but abusive behaviour of certain players is known by Relic so the individual complaint of a familiar face leading up to a suspension causes injustice in comparison with non-suspended abusive players that nobody officially complained about. One complaint of harrasment is never grounded reason for suspension.
how do you know others haven't reported them perhaps they're not from the coh2.org community. the fact is we don't know this no use in speculating/assuming. we also don't know if anyone else has been banned by relic for similar reason for all we know vonivan isn't the first. (but one of many.)
really though relic made there decision vonivan can wait 2 weeks won't be so bad. this is turning into a much bigger deal that it actually is. people get suspended from many games in coh1 people got suspended and im betting some got it for being abusive.
Failure is always an option. It's a happy massacre?! (yes, yes it is!) Caffeine illegal for WiFi's to ingest in 48 states, 2 colonies, and 1 providences. To make most awesome thing in universe combine Bears and Nicholas Cage! and remember kids, we didn't start the flame-war!
21 Jul 2013, 12:57 PM
#39
Posts: 366
Hans I think is wrong here.. This is the internet and indefinitely this will happen to a streamer. Chats like PLAY TUTORIAL and such other words arent abuse imho and they are DEFINITELY not harassment. I'm not in any way defending the EXPERTS. They can be annoying as hell at times but personally I would never get them banned for beating me on my stream and using abusive words against me. I would consider it as a part of bad experience which a streamer would have to face at one point or another.
Many times i've heard hans use words against other people too, and they don't overreact like little girls and ask Reborn to ban hans.
on a side note tho.. RAGING HANS is valuable and humourous part of my coh experience and I would like that to continue.
Many times i've heard hans use words against other people too, and they don't overreact like little girls and ask Reborn to ban hans.
on a side note tho.. RAGING HANS is valuable and humourous part of my coh experience and I would like that to continue
.
We choose our joys and sorrows long before we experience them
21 Jul 2013, 13:06 PM
#40
1 
Posts: 1838 | Subs: 17
I would just like to say that the people who are accusing me of also being abusive are wrong however I have been disrespectful to other players at times namely my team mates. I am not proud of it and I hate doing it but when I am so invested in a game I can't help myself sometimes. I am trying my best to stop. However the difference between me and Vonivan is that I ALWAYS APOLOGIZE afterwards when I have cool down and I realize what a dick I have been. Vonivan on the other hand was warned countless times and continued to be a dick ON PURPOSE. Watch that video that guy posted near the start of the thread. It's pretty insightful.
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