Improving my openings

Hi Coh2 community,

I've been spending a bit of time playing as the brits (I'm not an emplacement commander - please don't shoot me).

Just wanted some advice as to whether to open with the MG or Universal carrier?

I've had a go at both. My strategy has been to check whether its an open or urban map. From here I either rush IS into key building and MG. Or alternatively sequential capping with IS and use Universal carrier to stop enemy from taking key point until IS arrives.

What really interests me is the thought process by players to decide why they should go for what opening build. Is it mostly the faction they are versing or the potential commanders/bulletins they have seen chosen by opponents?

I've had some success and failure using both. The catalyst seems to be whether opponent rushes a 222 or a flame halftrack and if i've had enough time to prepare to T1 to 6 pounder. Its always a thrilling showdown.

I ask this because I ceased using the Universal carrier after it got nerfed prior to the self-repair (very handy). Its been a useful unit in stopping the man power bleed from running two IS in an opening.

Opening suggestions appreciated and is the vickers upgrade a viable soft counter against light unarmoured vehicles or should I always go WASP?

Clerv

I generally go with 1 inf section ( on top of the starting one) into machine gun followed by universal carrier. I find either upgrade viable, it just depends on what you need, The machine gun is very good if you're fighting in open areas as the mobile machine gun is ridiculous. But the WASP is also effective in open areas, it just happens to be crazy good against buildings as well( for obvious reasons. With good micro keeping it at maximum range against infantry you can duel even singular panzershreck squads, as you can take a singular hit and then roll off and repair without engineers. Use the machine gun to hold down key areas and use the infantry to cap and support the carrier with more firepower. If you're playing special weapons regiment you can rush out the Boys rifle infantry which will give your infantry security against a flame halftrack. And if you Come up against the dreaded Flak halftrack, a AEC or more Boys rifle infantry should deal with it. Without the Special Weapons regiment life is harder, a quick AT gun rush may help, but AT guns can die easily.

"When in doubt rush Centaur "

I generally go with 1 inf section ( on top of the starting one) into machine gun followed by universal carrier. I find either upgrade viable, it just depends on what you need, The machine gun is very good if you're fighting in open areas as the mobile machine gun is ridiculous. But the WASP is also effective in open areas, it just happens to be crazy good against buildings as well( for obvious reasons. With good micro keeping it at maximum range against infantry you can duel even singular panzershreck squads, as you can take a singular hit and then roll off and repair without engineers. Use the machine gun to hold down key areas and use the infantry to cap and support the carrier with more firepower. If you're playing special weapons regiment you can rush out the Boys rifle infantry which will give your infantry security against a flame halftrack. And if you Come up against the dreaded Flak halftrack, a AEC or more Boys rifle infantry should deal with it. Without the Special Weapons regiment life is harder, a quick AT gun rush may help, but AT guns can die easily.

"When in doubt rush Centaur "

Thanks Nboaram.

I'll give these softer AT options a go. I have previously steered clear of the AT section but i'll give them a go for sure. I must admit my 6 pounder has been over-run a few times which often has follow on consequenses like losing a trench or mortar pit from flame HT or 222.

Perhaps if I go AEC it will lure opponents into building too much anti-tank infantary.

Thanks for your input

Clerv

I generally go with 1 inf section ( on top of the starting one) into machine gun followed by universal carrier. I find either upgrade viable, it just depends on what you need, The machine gun is very good if you're fighting in open areas as the mobile machine gun is ridiculous. But the WASP is also effective in open areas, it just happens to be crazy good against buildings as well( for obvious reasons. With good micro keeping it at maximum range against infantry you can duel even singular panzershreck squads, as you can take a singular hit and then roll off and repair without engineers. Use the machine gun to hold down key areas and use the infantry to cap and support the carrier with more firepower. If you're playing special weapons regiment you can rush out the Boys rifle infantry which will give your infantry security against a flame halftrack. And if you Come up against the dreaded Flak halftrack, a AEC or more Boys rifle infantry should deal with it. Without the Special Weapons regiment life is harder, a quick AT gun rush may help, but AT guns can die easily.

"When in doubt rush Centaur "

A single Boys squad gives you "security against flame halftrack"? Are you trolling or something? Double zooks are not enough against that thing when handled properly. I do not know who you played against, but the Boys are pretty much useless unless somebody parks their vehicle right next to them in heavy cover, close enough to throw the HEAT nade. Other than that, they are harmless against vehicles and just get kited around. If they had a real snare, that would be a whole different story, but as they are now, unless your enemy is an idiot, they do not kill vehicles. Also, in 1v1, the AEC is usually a must, at least for me, because the Brits get outnumbered almost every time. Having said that, it is my experience with the Tank Hunters. If you have a different one, enjoy it, because I have not had any success with them so far.

A single Boys squad gives you "security against flame halftrack"? Are you trolling or something? Double zooks are not enough against that thing when handled properly. I do not know who you played against, but the Boys are pretty much useless unless somebody parks their vehicle right next to them in heavy cover, close enough to throw the HEAT nade. Other than that, they are harmless against vehicles and just get kited around. If they had a real snare, that would be a whole different story, but as they are now, unless your enemy is an idiot, they do not kill vehicles. Also, in 1v1, the AEC is usually a must, at least for me, because the Brits get outnumbered almost every time. Having said that, it is my experience with the Tank Hunters. If you have a different one, enjoy it, because I have not had any success with them so far.

I agree they can be killed by the flame halftrack easily, but the Heat grenade is a large threat to any light vehicle and if they stay clear of the grenade range then you can try and stay out of flame range because you have long ranged boys rifles. They aren't a counter but more of a deterrent preventing him from just walking all over you until you can get something stronger. If you have the ability to get a second squad then you can really threaten a flame halftrack. Hell, If you chose the machine gun on the UC you can just keep peppering him.

I agree they can be killed by the flame halftrack easily, but the Heat grenade is a large threat to any light vehicle and if they stay clear of the grenade range then you can try and stay out of flame range because you have long ranged boys rifles. They aren't a counter but more of a deterrent preventing him from just walking all over you until you can get something stronger. If you have the ability to get a second squad then you can really threaten a flame halftrack. Hell, If you chose the machine gun on the UC you can just keep peppering him.

"Stay out of flame range"? Hahaha, that flame range is like 3 times your grenade range, not to mention that the Flame HT is super fast. If you want to engage it, you will get flamed, period. And you know, most players PROTECT their flame HT with infantry or 222s, which will mow your Boys down. Also, you cannot use cover against Flame HT, so the DPS is lousy. If you go for it, you can get an AEC around the same time he gets the Flame HT, which is far better choice imo. Getting 2 squads of Boys severely limits your AI, because they just get WRECKED by mid game by basically any infantry out of heavy cover. Unless you get the 5 man upgrade, they are generally pretty weak. If your only squad against Flame HT is Boys, it can just kill them 1v1 in seconds and then proceed to the rest of your army, unless the enemy is a complete idiot. It is just that sort of unit that NEEDS a hardcounter, because it is too potent to be stopped with just softcounters. And the UC, while having some potential, is seriously bugged now. The pathing is so bad it gets fausted almost every game, even with high level players. I stopped counting the times a Kubel escaped just because this piece of sh*t derped out and started reversing.

"Stay out of flame range"? Hahaha, that flame range is like 3 times your grenade range, not to mention that the Flame HT is super fast. If you want to engage it, you will get flamed, period. And you know, most players PROTECT their flame HT with infantry or 222s, which will mow your Boys down. Also, you cannot use cover against Flame HT, so the DPS is lousy. If you go for it, you can get an AEC around the same time he gets the Flame HT, which is far better choice imo. Getting 2 squads of Boys severely limits your AI, because they just get WRECKED by mid game by basically any infantry out of heavy cover. Unless you get the 5 man upgrade, they are generally pretty weak. If your only squad against Flame HT is Boys, it can just kill them 1v1 in seconds and then proceed to the rest of your army, unless the enemy is a complete idiot. It is just that sort of unit that NEEDS a hardcounter, because it is too potent to be stopped with just softcounters.

If you remember my first post I did suggest an AEC and if the work I suggested with the UC is going well then it should be practically soloing the infantry let alone with the MG and infantry also included. If the UC is destroying the Infantry then I find it far more likely you're going to see a 222 as a response in which case the infantry are more than enough although you may lose the UC. You have many options as it comes up to German light vehicle time, AEC, AT gun, Piats, Boys rifle squads. IF you have more than one of these it is generally easy to counter anything they throw at you. And as I said if the UC is getting its value then your opponents infantry should be severely weakened and your infantry base should remain strong. The Boys rifles remain a reasonable option as even if you lose your UC then your halftrack should be up soon to follow up with Vicker's Light Machineguns to out DPS any german infantry.

If you remember my first post I did suggest an AEC and if the work I suggested with the UC is going well then it should be practically soloing the infantry let alone with the MG and infantry also included. If the UC is destroying the Infantry then I find it far more likely you're going to see a 222 as a response in which case the infantry are more than enough although you may lose the UC. You have many options as it comes up to German light vehicle time, AEC, AT gun, Piats, Boys rifle squads. IF you have more than one of these it is generally easy to counter anything they throw at you. And as I said if the UC is getting its value then your opponents infantry should be severely weakened and your infantry base should remain strong. The Boys rifles remain a reasonable option as even if you lose your UC then your halftrack should be up soon to follow up with Vicker's Light Machineguns to out DPS any german infantry.

The UC is far too buggy to be dependable, the pathing is just terrible. Half the time it reverses right into combat, getting fausted as a result. And its not cheap either, like all Brit units. It can be good, but only if you are prepared to lose your sanity over it dying for no reason. I think that 1 more IS or sniper would do the work better. Piats are really good only against King Tigers and such, because they do not home, which again means that your opponent has to be an idiot to even allow his light vehicles to get hit by Piats. Again, if Brits had snare, the Piats would be great, but as of now, well... Sorry if I seem too negative, just trying to put your plan through the test, not trying to mock you or anything.

The UC is far too buggy to be dependable, the pathing is just terrible. Half the time it reverses right into combat, getting fausted as a result. And its not cheap either, like all Brit units. It can be good, but only if you are prepared to lose your sanity over it dying for no reason. I think that 1 more IS or sniper would do the work better. Piats are really good only against King Tigers and such, because they do not home, which again means that your opponent has to be an idiot to even allow his light vehicles to get hit by Piats. Again, if Brits had snare, the Piats would be great, but as of now, well... Sorry if I seem too negative, just trying to put your plan through the test, not trying to mock you or anything.

I spend most of my time using reverse on it anyway. The UC is just a micro heavy bastard but it can reap rewards if you practice with it. You want to literally be keeping it at maximum range, it's still effective and it gives it the most amount of security. I agree Piats are infuriating.

Thanks for your input

I've had some success with the following against OH and OKW.

Bulletins: IS, 6 Pounder, Upgrade $ Reduction Universal Carrier

Commander: Vanguard operations

Build UC
Build MG
IS cap towards Fuel
UC defend fueland keep distance to and bleed deter pioneers/strums
Tech T1
Build Engies
Build Mortar and kill/deter rival MG
Tech UC vickers
Build Trench - Garrison MG
Check Fuel status and Tech AEC
Repair Mortar from rival mortars barrages
Use UC to recap any lost points with Vehicle Cap (1cp)
UC and MG to defend against flame grenades on mortar
Build AEC and Flank Mortars
Build 6 pounder
Destroy 222 or deter Puma using AEC and 6 pounder
Tech pyroterchnics flares and rush their forward point for area denial of mortar set up points

Anyone else keen to share their openings

aren't you getting destroyed by infantry ? not much cap capacity (doctrinal on UC cost quite some ammo no ?). is rush mortar pit any good ?

Hey Hven

Using the 1CP Vanguard vehicle cap is awesome for capping capacity despite its cost. I would argue building a munitions point (100mp?) and using these munis can be more efficient to run an active UC than building a second IS for anti infantary. I've also found it to be a great deterrent to OST sniper cheese. Its all about buying time being the Brits.

Auto-Repairing when fausted is cheaper than the Faust itself. Soon enough you have engineers.

Only having one IS has helped speed to tec for centaur or AEC. I'd rather outlay munitions than manpower. Eventually I want a bren Air landing officer and i don't want too many IS

Providing these tasty vehicles is a great invitation for your rival to blob AT infantary -let em do so

Always have an mg covering mortar pit from my experiences

Clerv

if it's the same price as fuel one than it cost 250p. On a map like la gleize i don't really see how you can hold bulding with base IS and UC, wait for HMG in the building you are holding and finally retreat to cap forward fuel with IS. it take shit load of time no?

1CP Vanguard vehicle cap make UC more useful but it cost 50 ammo and you will must likely keep it for UC upgrade. maybe it's me bad positioning my mortar pit but it's somewhat hard to cover a vp and mortar pit with the same HMG (on la gleize you build it behind mid house and he can flank it quite easily). pit is necessary since it's the only means to clear building (if no wasp) but it feels like 400 mp "waste" since it will be detroyed by any mortar/ieig built (and maybe cost your RE when they repair). do you have some tips about mortar pit ? i tend to put it behind un blockshot but forward enough to fire more often and cover where i want to push the enemy (in front of their base xD).

Landing officer is sweet but feels like you will be bullied until you get it. i may try your build to see if it's not floating. what rank are you ?

Personally i'm 200>x (grade 16). i go (on la gleize to keep dat map):
(Basic IS) cap house - IS (cap toward fuel then ammo then help 1st IS) - UC (to support IS holding) - IS (cap forward mid vp) - t2 - RE (if not much bleeding) or techaec+aec (want it as soon as you have the fuel for). pretty situational afterward (if not RE at the point you need one for AEC), HMG/Mortar pit/2ndRE/6pound etc.

i like to play agressive (i get bored otherwise). this build permit me to hold a good house and still cap fuel fast. UC reduce mp bleed and lower enemy's squads health. 3rd IS give me good cap power (it make me feels like i'm not inferior to enemy and not pushed over).

i play with Mobile Assault Regiment only (too scared to try other commander lol). since i feel like mortar pit cannot be kept alive it give me some building clear with flamethrower (usualy when pit/wasp destroyed). with same logic landmatress give a more "durable" arty (later in the game). Infiltration Commandos can do some good stuff when spawned behind and kill team weapon (maybe game breaking when you kill pak at 40min). Vehicle Crew Repairs is nice when 2 or more tanks are low. Advanced Cover Bonus i always forget it but 75 ammo is fairly cheap and buff those 3 IS.