Maxim HMG - Unreasonably overnerfed

Ok, if I understand right, originaly idea of nerfing Maxims (when price rised to 260, build time also increased, such as set-up/pack-up...) was to make them "less spammable" and make T2+Maxim "not only effective option for USSR players and make T1 more attractive in that way and combine it with Penalbuff".

But... I said before, I say now - that's not how you make units less spammable and other gamebuilds more attractive. Nerfing good units to level of "shit" for to make other shit units be more attractive - how "smart" you should be for to make that, instead of just making first shit unit (Penals) good at level of it's alternative?!

But... that's about past. Right now - I see no reasons, why Maxim should cost equialy with T0 MG-42, why it should come so long and more than that - I don't understand, why it should cost even more, than MG-34!

From my point of view - Maxim, in that USSR faction design, which we have right now should be:

1.) Cheap (really cheap);
2.) Spammable;

Or should

3.) Have "defensive" alternative.

See, USSR have absolutely no other tools of infantry crowd control, except Maxim/DsHK HMGs (which are different only in stats, their general design is same). No bunkers, no other static positions, like Bofors or FlakHQ. M5AA is also not defensive crowd control tool and can't be used in same way, as bunkers. It's just "fragile Maxim on wheels".

So - whenever I need to protect some point/line/anyotherpositiononmap from enemy infantry income I should spend 260 MP, wait shitload of time and then use it. In meantime, other factions may build pretty cheap bunkers for 150/125 MP, or build defensive positions with high range of fire and high effectiveness of that fire and cover all positions, which they need with that. Ostheer don't have to spend 260 MP each time, when they need to have AI-supression platform somewhere, just like USF don't need to do it - they have cheap fireing positions, etc...

As result - they have to spend way less MP, and MP is very important resourse at ALL stages of game, even if it has +300 basic income. You never can have too much MP (only if you don't lose your units, that happens very rare with "expendable fast dying units of USSR").

So, making Maxims back cheaper and spammable would make Soviet defensive gameplay more... existable. And you always need that defensive gameplay, when you have all needed map points under your control, cos if you won't stop your attack at that moment - you will push more and more, and at some period you will exhaust and lose control of map, which will cause lose.

Other way would be making that "defensive alternative" for Maxim. It can be soviet bunkers, it can be special HMG, which can change DsHK, or DsHK itself can be changed to be more like M2HB - with wider arc, but lesser damage and supression.

One more idea - since Maxim is "very defenseable" when it placed in buildings, maybe Conscripts should be able, like TommyRiflemans dig Trenches (or something like trenches) for HMGs, so they would be used as defensive tool. That actually would work very well!

Btw, In that way or another - USSR needs anti-infantry defensive units or just something. That's very important part of any faction, OKW sucked without it, and they got their MG-34 for to keep rifleblobs under control. Now give something for USSR for USSR could keep axis under control. Or make Maxims so spammable and cheap, that they would do that job effective, cos for to cover same area, as covers MG-42/Vikkers/Any other normal HMG you need to have at least 3 (!) Maxims. Imagine, how much USSR needs to spend, just for to build effective defenses right now!!! That's definitely way more, that spend any other faction on that.

Not really sure what there's to complain about with maxims. Yea they got nerfed but that's because they were a 6 man offensive machine gun. They can beat any other early game unit as well as suppress multiple units while being your main infantry and coming with easy anti-tank support options. If they're too cheap and too good, you can simply spam enough maxims that they're unflankable while nothing can beat them head-on, which is what everyone including me did pre-patch (yeah it was also cause the other options sucked, but it was still good). Now you might have to think about the strategic and tactical movement of your maxims a little more. Not to mention being the cheapest infantry to reinforce in the game at 15 manpower... yeah, I don't think they need any buffs.

The maxim nerf was an Alibi nerf, so nobody can say Maxim wasn't nerfed. Maximspam is as alive as ever.


It's stats weren't really nerfed.

Maxim was indirectly buffed with grenade range reduction in suppressed state.

-cost increased
-setting time increased

better do penal and call duska later

Not really sure what there's to complain about with maxims. Yea they got nerfed but that's because they were a 6 man offensive machine gun. They can beat any other early game unit as well as suppress multiple units while being your main infantry and coming with easy anti-tank support options. If they're too cheap, you can simply spam enough maxims that they're unflankable, which is what everyone including me did pre-patch. Now you might have to think about the strategic and tactical movement of your maxims a little more. Not to mention being the cheapest infantry to reinforce in the game at 15 manpower... yeah, I don't think they need any buffs.

6 man offensive machine gun. Offensive machine gun is oxymoron, it can't be effective. Such as "offensive AT-gun" (Puphen or M-42 are kinda that AT, do you like them, compared with PaK 40 or ZiS?) or offensive howitzer (Sextons are soo sweet...).

They can beat any other early game unit? Yea, but only 1 ostheer mortar or 1 unit, which can absolutely easy flank that small arc of fire of Maxim can beat that Maxim, leaving for that no chanses to survive, since it has that funny bug, with "man dies - man run to gun - man dies...". Maxim is not immortal, it is very easy counterable HMG, way easier than MG-42, which has ENOURMOUSLY large arc of fire, and can only be striked in back effectively. Or countered with same mortar, lol.

Yea, you can simply spam Maxims and they will be... not unflankable, but hardly flankable. Such as Vikkers hardly flankable, such as MG-42 hardly flankable, cos they cover very big area, supress in very big area - that is not that easy to avoid succesfully sometimes.

And why should I think about "tactical movement and strategy" with Maxims, while other factions may just put their HMG with super-wide arc and areal supression or put there HMG bunker/AI position and just forget about it - it will automaticly deal with all problems without any micro? I don't think, that it is fair.

And cheap reinforcement price is not excuse for that high price of squad itself or so bad performance of that, because... seriously, HMG shouldn't be cheap - it should be effective.

Maxim was indirectly buffed with grenade range reduction in suppressed state.

Such as all HMGs then. It doesn't make Maxim really better.

The maxim nerf was an Alibi nerf, so nobody can say Maxim wasn't nerfed. Maximspam is as alive as ever.


It's stats weren't really nerfed.

Cos maxim spam is still only effective option for early game. Penal buff was trick, Penals still suck. Whoever use Penals, getting affected with that trick - losing more often, cos it's so easy to counter Penals with one single MG-42... Or bunch of bunkers. Or few 222s... T1 sucks.

Well, setup time was nerfed, that was painful. Such as unreasonably increased price and building time.

Ok you buff the maxim and it will be spammed again simple

Ok you buff the maxim and it will be spammed again simple

It suppoused to be spammed, it designed to be spammed, that's problem! MG-42 doesn't need to be spammed for to perform effectively, Vikkers doesn't need to be spammed for to perform effectively, but Maxim does, because of "assymetrical balance" and wierd design ideas.

You just can't make unspammable unit, which can't perform well, if not spammed. Otherwise, you can just remove it from game, cos... what for you need it then? Just like "let's make Osttrupens unspammalbe, because spamming is bad! Increase price, increase cooldown time = Osttrupens suck".

Maxim right now it "Osttrupen" of HMG, so poor designed it is.

Maxim is bad design since release, A-move MG is totally against game design.

Are balance threads like Beetlejuice where if you make the same one three times the change appears in the next patch?

Maxim right now it "Osttrupen" of HMG, so poor designed it is.

The only MG with better stats is the .50 cal

The only MG with better stats is the .50 cal

Depends on what stats we mean here.

Maxim has very small arc of fire and very small areal supression. That 2 stats, not damage, not penetration, not setup/packup time are really important for infantry supression platofrms in all CoHs.

HMG should keep infantry crowds under supression (control), while other combat or support units deal with them.

And in those stats Maxim is worst. Such as in crowd control as result.

Such as all HMGs then. It doesn't make Maxim really better.

It makes Maxim better.

So the reason is not in "Maxim is bad" but "it is worse in some aspects than other HMGs"?

I don't get it - why instead of finding ways to overcome your struggle you come to forums and ask for buffs for your favorite faction? It is the most interesting thing in... probably ALL games - to Adapt! To make all that system work using all the tools in your disposal!

It makes Maxim better.

So the reason is not in "Maxim is bad" but "it is worse in some aspects than other HMGs"?

I don't get it - why instead of finding ways to overcome your struggle you come to forums and ask for buffs for your favorite faction? It is the most interesting thing in... probably ALL games - to Adapt! To make all that system work using all the tools in your disposal!

USSR is not my favorite faciton, why do you think so? Just because I asking buff for them? I also asked buff for a lot of factions, it doesn't mean that each of them was/is my favorite.

I just see real problems in USSR, in their genreal design, in design of their units... Maxim is one of their biggest problems. HMG, which should be used as some kind of "offensive HMG". But problem is - even MG-42 can perform as offensive HMG better, if offensive HMG means, that you use it for to cover with fire at frontline firefights your units with it. MG-42 does it way better, because of higer fire/supression efficiency and again - larger arc of fire. Maxim can't perform that well in that role, because you need to micro it too much, for to prevent flanking + small area supression means, that it's not such a big problem to rush it even in face. And 2 additional men in squad means nothing in that case, it doesn't benefit at all, specially when all of those men have bigger than common recived accuracy stat and dying under fire like flys.

And I don't understand, why USSR players should "adapt" to something, while all others can play normally, without that adapt headache? That's like give to one soldier rifle, and to his opponent - dildo and say: "dude, it's assymetrical balance, cos you know... rifle can kill, dildo can also kill. Harder to kill with dildo? Adapt!". Ridiculous.

Buff maxims by making them cheaper
They already have a pretty bad setup time, no need to make it harder to acquire, as it'll be less effective when spammed.

It suppoused to be spammed, it designed to be spammed, that's problem! MG-42 doesn't need to be spammed for to perform effectively, Vikkers doesn't need to be spammed for to perform effectively, but Maxim does, because of "assymetrical balance" and wierd design ideas.

Maxim right now it "Osttrupen" of HMG, so poor designed it is.

Speak for yourself.

Cons + Maxim support has always been effective, and is still good now. What makes you think the Maxim is designed to be spammed with only other Maxims? Why would you want it to be?

Also Osttruppen are God-tier.

Buff maxims by making them cheaper
They already have a pretty bad setup time, no need to make it harder acquire, as it'll be less effective when spammed.

I see what u are trying to do here


Anyway, don't try to play SU as OH, and don't try to play OH as SU/USF. SU doesn't defend on the traditional way and OH doesn't attack on the traditional way. That's how the factions have been played for 3 years (discounting gren spam patches)

I see what u are trying to do here


Anyway, don't try to play SU as OH, and don't try to play OH as SU/USF. SU doesn't defend on the traditional way and OH doesn't attack on the traditional way. That's how the factions have been played for 3 years (discounting gren spam patches)

snip

Buff Maxims so VonIvan can win more tournaments