Ostheer

So Stug E crutch play or lose? 90% of the map pool doesn't favor Ostheer and your early game is considerably weaker than all Allied factions. The USF matchup is a joke now that the USF mortar insta gibs entire full health squads and makes team weapons become useless. This means you are out of means for stopping USF blob of zook and bar doom.

I mean, you can't do anything but crutch play into double 222 and wait for stug E callin.

The Brummbär is quite good now but comes too late. Also one effective vehicle in T4 doesn´t make me build it, so usually you should stick with T3 into Tigers. But the Tiger build was also indirectly nerfed with the Allied TD adjustments.

Ostheer still lacks its lategame strenght. Panzerwerfer and especially Panther need something.

In the early game you still need to depend on the Sniper abuse (which has also been nerfed) to stay relevant with Ostheer which is quite a gamble. Team games with OKW are also harder due to the huge nerfs to OKW.

T376 blobs and PP-Cons @ vet 3 with 'immortality elixir', unkillable support teams and very fast (pun intended) Cromwells are the only issues plaguing the ostheer player.

The Brummbär is quite good now but comes too late. Also one effective vehicle in T4 doesn´t make me build it, so usually you should stick with T3 into Tigers. But the Tiger build was also indirectly nerfed with the Allied TD adjustments.

Ostheer still lacks its lategame strenght. Panzerwerfer and especially Panther need something.

In the early game you still need to depend on the Sniper abuse (which has also been nerfed) to stay relevant with Ostheer which is quite a gamble. Team games with OKW are also harder due to the huge nerfs to OKW.

All OH armor comes out too late. P4 is more expensive for no reason (compared to other mediums). P4 vs Sherman, Sherman can still 1v1 a p4 with a little micro, cromwell has the edge vs p4. Ostwind is mediocre at best, mostly trash cuz requires constant at support. So really OH is UP in the early, mid, and late game. Completely UP faction (in 1v1). The faction is designed as a glass cannon faction but has always been more glass than cannon. I believe OH deserves 5 lvls of vet more than OKW cuz of the fragile nature of almost all units. This will actually give OH a late game - a fighting chance.

Not only does tier 4 deserve a buff, but the tier 3, p4 needs a small penetration buff, cuz currently the cromwell has better penetration, and it can use its speed to close the gap to nullify the only adv the p4 has - frontal armor. Right now the only thing that is superior about German (ostheer) armor is the cost (is higher.) OH is like a poor man's OKW.

Panzer 4 is overpriced with shit penetration- 110 ..even lower than bazooka.
Panther has terrible dps and bad accuracy .
Ostwind misses too much and reloads at random...weak.
Lategame axis infantry cant compete and get wiped due to 4 man squads.
Ostheer play is dependant on sniper micro a lot.
And dont play usf in 1 vs 1...waste of time.

90% of the map pool doesn't favor Ostheer

Sadly but this is almsot true, as any faction i don't like 60% of maps. Relic add more vetoes please.

I thought people would agree yeah..

Ostheer are ok, they received slight buffs to their biggest weakness (slow teching). The only unit that was nerfed this patch was the tiger (both directly from rear armour nerf and indrectly after all its counters were buffed).

As you've said the big problem is the USF mortar being OP. As with every faction there is still plenty of room for small tweaks in some units (e.g. Ostwind reload)but overall the faction is in a better place than most other factions right now.

Ostheer suffers also from being left behind. OKW has everything better. StGs on Volks are better on range that PG StGs afaik.

OKW Panther has better MGs and accuracy than the Ost Panther.

KT > Tiger I.

And so on. I think at least the PGs and Panther could be buffed to OKW standards. They still would lack the possibility to get 5 levels of vet.

T376 blobs and PP-Cons @ vet 3 with 'immortality elixir', unkillable support teams and very fast (pun intended) Cromwells are the only issues plaguing the ostheer player.

How the hell would you know?

You've proven recently that you haven't even turned the game on for 6+ months in the panzergrau skin thread, so why so much concern for the game you haven't even turned on this year, proving that, if I'm forum warrior, then you're forum warrior god?

...How the hell would you know?

Once more turning balance issues into personal issues. This attitude is simply not helpful.

Balance issues?

The stuff he describes does not even exists outside of gimmicky strats.

Sometimes I wonder if Grenadiers could get the -40% received accuracy bonus Conscripts get at vet 3. Or at least slightly better vet bonuses.

IMO, this would improve balance with Ostheer vs. US or UK but would negatively affect the Ostheer/Soviet matchup.

Anyways, imo I think Ostheer needs the following changes:

- Pioneers need to be better at repairing stuff (so do Soviet Combat Engineers) or alternatively the newer factions need to be made worse at repairing stuff
- LeFH (and maybe PaK43) needs to be harder to kill (same with all other static howitzers)
- Ostwind just needs a buff
- 222 needs a complete redesign
- The Med Kit needs to be more useful
- 251 halftrack needs something. Unsure what. Think more armour would be a start but that's not going to change much.

And, maybe most important, I think Ostheer needs some sort of tech tree redesign so they can counter light vehicles more easily (I'd love to see the Sniper and PaK get swapped, as I see that alleviating a number of balance issues) and also get units out into the field a little faster.

I also wonder if Grenadiers and maybe Panzer Grenadiers should become a little more expensive and a little more potent in combat. I feel like Ostheer is supposed to get quality units, but Grenadiers feel pretty mediocre compared to Allied WFA infantry. Feel like they should be a 280MP squad but really good at long range combat. Again, I'm aware this would skew Ostheer/Soviet balance. (Maybe Conscripts could become cheaper?)

Other thing is I'm not sure what to do with the Panzer IV. This unit feels reasonably powerful and very well balanced, but I'm also aware that the Brits have a much better vehicle with the 110 fuel Cromwell and that the US Sherman has more utility. Not sure if situation is fine or if nerfs/buffs need to be handed out.

Balance issues?
The stuff he describes does not even exists outside of gimmicky strats.

Then explain in why in your opinion his claims do not make sense. Making personal comments has no impact on the claims made by that person and only create a toxic environment, that does not promote a debate.

Then explain in why in your opinion his claims do not make sense. Making personal comments has no impact on the claims made by that person and only create a toxic environment, that does not promote a debate.

Hey man, thanks for your comments, but let him be. The only thing he does is hijacking some threads now and then. Don´t even argue with him, or this thread will be lost in a flame war between fanboys.

Sometimes I wonder if Grenadiers could get the -40% received accuracy bonus Conscripts get at vet 3. Or at least slightly better vet bonuses.

IMO, this would improve balance with Ostheer vs. US or UK but would negatively affect the Ostheer/Soviet matchup.

Anyways, imo I think Ostheer needs the following changes:

- Pioneers need to be better at repairing stuff (so do Soviet Combat Engineers) or alternatively the newer factions need to be made worse at repairing stuff
- LeFH (and maybe PaK43) needs to be harder to kill (same with all other static howitzers)
- Ostwind just needs a buff
- 222 needs a complete redesign
- The Med Kit needs to be more useful
- 251 halftrack needs something. Unsure what. Think more armour would be a start but that's not going to change much.

And, maybe most important, I think Ostheer needs some sort of tech tree redesign so they can counter light vehicles more easily (I'd love to see the Sniper and PaK get swapped, as I see that alleviating a number of balance issues) and also get units out into the field a little faster.

I also wonder if Grenadiers and maybe Panzer Grenadiers should become a little more expensive and a little more potent in combat. I feel like Ostheer is supposed to get quality units, but Grenadiers feel pretty mediocre compared to Allied WFA infantry. Feel like they should be a 280MP squad but really good at long range combat. Again, I'm aware this would skew Ostheer/Soviet balance. (Maybe Conscripts could become cheaper?)

Other thing is I'm not sure what to do with the Panzer IV. This unit feels reasonably powerful and very well balanced, but I'm also aware that the Brits have a much better vehicle with the 110 fuel Cromwell and that the US Sherman has more utility. Not sure if situation is fine or if nerfs/buffs need to be handed out.

Good points, although I don´t feel that conscripts are any better with their vet 3 bonuses, they still suck very hard in my opinion. As for the Ostheer Panzer IV. It is overpriced, has low armor and has low penetration. It needs some decent bufs, because A stug is 10 times better than a Panzer IV AT wise, and a Ostwind is 10 times better AI wise than a Panzer IV. Ostheer Panzer IV loses to every medium tank in the game..