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Countering Soviet Combined Arms

16 Jul 2013, 07:48 AM
#1
avatar of mercenary90

Posts: 3

This patch, the most difficult situation I find mid-game is when my opponent fields a combined-arms army and knows how to utilise it in concert. Usually, this means:
2 Engis, one with a flamer
3-4 Conscripts with HTD, PPShs, and molotovs
1-2 Guards with DP-28
1-2 SU-85s
1-2 Snipers
0-1 Katyushas/Howitzer

against my army of:
2 Pioneers, unupgraded
2-3 Grens, unupgraded
1-2 HMGs
1-2 PGrens, one with a Schreck
1-2 P4s
0-1 Paks

I've tried a few counters, but this Soviet unit combo synergises incredibly well.
The conscripts are straight-up superior to both PGrens and Grens. MG42s are expensive and still lose to HTD conscripts. Grenades are a significant drain on resources and can often leave you without muni to panzerfaust scout cars. Even when I get a flank off on a sniper, I have to retreat very quickly due to sniper shots and PPSh causing too many casualties while closing range.
The snipers generally tend to focus on decrewing my HMGs and AT guns, preventing them from suppressing the conscripts with them or getting shots off on the SU-85s. Countersnipes don't work very well on two-man sniper squads and don't inflict a comparable MP drain on 6-man Soviet squads.
SU-85s do very well against tanks, can spot and shoot farther than all Ostheer units, and are protected from tank flanks by Guards buttoning.

I find that it's incredibly difficult to attack or defend against this combination.
Attacking it: snipers quickly whittle down infantry, and guards and conscripts have clear superiority over the remaining infantry. An attentive player can kite SU-85s backwards from charging tanks, schrecks, or AT guns.
Defending against it: snipers pick away at infantry/weapons teams, SU-85s pick away at tanks, and artillery picks away at everything while conscripts and guards protect them. I find I must either attack (and usually lose to the firepower of PPShs and DP-28s) or pull back (and cede territory), both undesirable options.

Any ideas on what I can do to counter this?
16 Jul 2013, 11:36 AM
#2
avatar of suDDen-deAth

Posts: 47

you should add 1-2 replays to give us a better insight in to how you manage your units and resources.

in general: try to stick your units together. early game have a gren squad near your MG so scout cars can not just drive by and flame it. make sure the have to drive through the mg's line of fire to harass other units.

hold off on early weapon upgrades. make sure you always have enough munitions to fire a faust at all times and save up enough munitions for a fast flamer HT - it has a great shock value if produced fast enough. make sure it has a save retreating route. dont use it as a spearhead cuz when u run into a bulk of cons, they will nade and perish you faster than you can say "goodbye tovarish", even worse when you have to face guards rifles.
16 Jul 2013, 15:40 PM
#3
avatar of undostrescuatro

Posts: 525

  • try to upgrade some of your units perhaps? grenadiers with upgrade hit really hard.(you have to stay put to use it but the dmg is a big diference)

  • try to mix your pioneers with your panzer grenadiers. the pioners work as a meat shield for your PG and he will be overwhelmed with so many units.

  • try to attack move your mg even if its less efficient. it can help in an assault (instead of being in the back)

  • get your units in buildings. mg+ mortars force early retreats. get a half track not to attack but to use as a reinforce point. cover it with your mgs.


don't know what else to say.
16 Jul 2013, 20:59 PM
#4
avatar of Lokust22

Posts: 79

What doctrine are you normally going? There are a lot of abilities that can help you.

If you're able to chase away his infantry or else make his tanks move, you have a good chance of breaking the line and killing the su85s. So strafe, off map arty, on map arty, pak43s, smoke, etc.

As Sudden Death said, a few replays would help, but just speaking generally about a couple of the things you've said.

Re MG vs HTD cons: Cons can't HTD if they're suppressed, so your mg should be able to help here (at the very least, make them hit the dirt pre-emptively.

PG vs HTD cons: I would assume you are trying to use your PGs to get at the SU85. So map dependent, if he is hitting the dirt, try just walk away. Shreks are pretty good at long range and cons aren't, so you can have some fun with that. I would say try to not toss nades if you can avoid it. Rather conserve the munitions (although some people may not agree with this). Obviously this still leaves the snipers to deal with though.

I hope this helped a little.
16 Jul 2013, 23:22 PM
#5
avatar of Harbinger

Posts: 3

I find the best counter to HTD is to use rifle grenades, i always keep two grens together (a tactic from COH1) the first one should force him to stand up, if not then the second will ruin the squad even if they started from full health. It also allows you to remain at range which is what the germans need to do, note that soviets are the aggressor while the germans are the defensive side. if you get lucky aswell someone wil use HTD and have them blob confident in HTD, then use a bundle or mortar and they will be nailed. This may not cover all your issues but HTD is a common occurrence i hope you find this helpul.
17 Jul 2013, 01:08 AM
#6
avatar of Stonethecrow01

Posts: 379

I've run into a similar problem in 2v2. Once my opponent's team locks down a fuel/VP area, it can be really hard to unlock.

HMG's, SU-85's, Conscripts and Guards make it a tough nut to crack. Once your infantry retreat from MG fire (or sometimes, Katusha fire) your tanks can't really move in or they get AT Naded and SU-85'ed apart.

So far I've found the artillery options either too expensive or ineffective to dislodge my opponents strong holds. Mortars don't kill enough, fast enough. Artillery + Nebelwerfers cost too much and come too late.
18 Jul 2013, 08:09 AM
#7
avatar of mercenary90

Posts: 3

http://www.coh2.org/replays/5473/soviet-combined-arms

Here's a replay. When the conscripts put on PPShs and HTD, they became really difficult to kill. I rushed to a P4 as a counter, but SU85s came out around the same time and put an end to that. I built mortars to kill the Maxims and HTD conscripts, but the conscripts tended to be mobile (and thus difficult to hit) until hitting close range, at which point any mortar shells were likely to hit my own troops. Grens and PGrens didn't seem to be very effective. In retrospect, I should have built a sniper, but I'm not sure how much that would have helped.
18 Jul 2013, 09:18 AM
#8
avatar of suDDen-deAth

Posts: 47

http://www.coh2.org/replays/5473/soviet-combined-arms

Here's a replay. When the conscripts put on PPShs and HTD, they became really difficult to kill. I rushed to a P4 as a counter, but SU85s came out around the same time and put an end to that. I built mortars to kill the Maxims and HTD conscripts, but the conscripts tended to be mobile (and thus difficult to hit) until hitting close range, at which point any mortar shells were likely to hit my own troops. Grens and PGrens didn't seem to be very effective. In retrospect, I should have built a sniper, but I'm not sure how much that would have helped.


get a flamer HT ASAP when you notice the opponent is going for maxims (and htd).

on a side note: when you see cons with HTD on the goround rund your tank over them, this will crush them instantly. you might risk a damaged engine but if he doesnt pay attention the squad is dead. have a pio team around to get the tank up and running again.
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Rosbone: @aerafield Its Relics fault. I try to think like they do to understand and then I stroke out and become retarded for a day or two. :romeoHairDay:
21 Jul 2025, 20:52 PM
aerafield: @Rosbone the game launched two and a half years ago and you use the term "dead on arrival"? :snfPeter:
21 Jul 2025, 11:24 AM
OKSpitfire: I was amazed at how much better it had become in basically all facets. I think the community balance team had already taken over by the time I came back.
19 Jul 2025, 09:21 AM
OKSpitfire: It's hard to recall, exactly. I think I did what a lot of long time fans have done with 3: I was so disappointed by it on release that I just forgot all about the game and didn't play it all for about four years.
19 Jul 2025, 09:19 AM
Rosbone: I bring it up because I see reviews are black and white. People love it or hate it. Was this the way Coh2 was back in the day? I recall people telling me to stay away for a while.
19 Jul 2025, 07:46 AM
Rosbone: On July 15th, Coh3 received a lot of bad reviews. It is at 45% recent and will drop more soon. That game seems DOA more and more every minute.
19 Jul 2025, 07:44 AM
donofsandiego: KRUPP STÄHL UND PORSCHE ARMOUR 😈😈😈😈
18 Jul 2025, 12:51 PM
OKSpitfire: I do like the Guastatori voices too, in fairness but the rest are so forgettable... Coh 1 and 2 had some hilarious lines and of course the absurdly over the top "PRIDE OF THE FATHERLAND" caricature evil tiger commander :lolol:
17 Jul 2025, 16:15 PM
aerafield: The DAK assaultgren/pzjäger voice-over is amazing though, I'll give them that https://youtu.be/vlAy4xK0bqk?si=hgvpYIsnnzTGxRgZ&t=610
17 Jul 2025, 15:28 PM
aerafield: MG42 AND CREW, READY!
17 Jul 2025, 15:26 PM
OKSpitfire: Agree, its definitely closer to 1 than 2, even with the distinct lack of polish.
17 Jul 2025, 11:40 AM
OKSpitfire: I may be a filthy COH 3 enjoyer but I still can't stand the sound, it's so dogshit compared to the previous entries. Forgettable voice acting included.
17 Jul 2025, 11:36 AM
Rosbone: It also feels weird that Coh3 is missing snow/rain etc. Feels more like vCoh Definitive Edition than Coh3.
16 Jul 2025, 16:11 PM
Rosbone: Ahhh so Coh3 is on schedule. The last big thing is observation mode. There are like 3 modes but none are usable for learning. And things will be missed when casting. but I dont see them doing any more updates.
16 Jul 2025, 16:07 PM
aerafield: 3 years give or take, in the middle of 2016 (around 9 months after brits release), Relic stopped caring about CoH2 patches and passed the torch on to a community team
16 Jul 2025, 12:54 PM
Rosbone: How many years did Coh2 evolve?
16 Jul 2025, 04:51 AM
Rosbone: By ending development they are literally killing their own IP. no one cares about Coh3 because it will never evolve. It is in a done state. the end. So their is nothing to report and build hype around.
16 Jul 2025, 04:50 AM
Rosbone: They will pretend they care and push out DLC to scrape whatever money they can from the small group playing it. that is the only news you will read from now on.
16 Jul 2025, 04:43 AM
Rosbone: Stillborn and they have abandoned it. Thus doing what I said they would 5 years ago... kill the community. How are they so blind that everyone saw this coming but them?
16 Jul 2025, 04:42 AM
Rosbone: @aerafield I agree. It is a working game. It will not get the Coh2 people to come over and it is not finished yet. So there is really nothing to talk about for Coh3.
16 Jul 2025, 04:40 AM

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