USF didn't need a mortar.

I just played some dude ranked about 150 as Ost who built 3 mgs, a gren, a morter, into double AC, then callin puma.

After building 3 rifles and upon seeing multiple mgs, I built double morter, then capt, stuart, and then 2nd stuart. I teched zooks in addition to deal with light vehicle. Game was over in about 12 mins

My opponent cried op the whole game.

Now I know the playerbase has gone to shit skill wise ( i am no great talent myself ) but given the current issues surrounding the usf morter i would have thought someone ranked that high would be capable of adapting.

Yes morters may be a little op atm ( particuly in pairs ) but they sure do shut shit like this down hard and rightly so.

Anyone who has any alternative ideas as to how i should counter this build and not rely on morters or doctrinal flamers or doctrinal mines, please feel free to comment.

Yes morters may be a little op atm ( particuly in pairs ) but they sure do shut shit like this down hard and rightly so.

I personally don't build MG at all before i am sure US player did'nt build mortar or i killed and denied his mortar.

Anyone who has any alternative ideas as to how i should counter this build and not rely on morters or doctrinal flamers or doctrinal mines, please feel free to comment.

The usual: Flank, or smoke and flank, or smoke bum rush it or smoke and nade it or flank and nade it.

My way: Build firing position behind shot blocker and bombard the mg with its nades. I love this ability, and hate it when i am on the receiving end.( Seriously nade dropping on your squads and you don't see the culprit is annoying , squad should yell grenade but they don't when it lands on their feet.)

I personally don't build MG at all before i am sure US player did'nt build mortar or i killed and denied his mortar.

The usual: Flank, or smoke and flank, or smoke bum rush it or smoke and nade it or flank and nade it.

My way: Build firing position behind shot blocker and bombard the mg with its nades. I love this ability, and hate it when i am on the receiving end.( Seriously nade dropping on your squads and you don't see the culprit is annoying , squad should yell grenade but they don't when it lands on their feet.)

Flanking 3 mgs is easier said than done especially against players with good mg micro. Upgrading to smoke will delay ambulance and tech and is no guarantee to work especially against houses. If you fail to push ost of the map he will have 2 AC out before you have a stuart and you've got no munis for mines or AT nades because they were wasted on smoke.

Smoke nades are a terrible choice when ost spams mgs because they are usually skipping t1, and you will be facing t2 units which nades are ineffective.

Flanking 3 mgs is easier said than done especially against players with good mg micro. Upgrading to smoke will delay ambulance and tech and is no guarantee to work especially against houses. If you fail to push ost of the map he will have 2 AC out before you have a stuart and you've got no munis for mines or AT nades because they were wasted on smoke.

Smoke nades are a terrible choice when ost spams mgs because they are usually skipping t1, and you will be facing t2 units which nades are ineffective.

3 mg opening? May i ask which rank you play at?

Btw if ost skips t1 he wont have a mainline infantry. If he gets some Kind of replacement (prosttruppen,assgrens etc) they wont be able to Faust. Your light vehicles can Basicly drive up to every teamweapon without having to worry too much. If you have problems with fast 222, try to get double zooks on RE, or better 2x RE with double zook.

Flanking 3 mgs is easier said than done especially against players with good mg micro. Upgrading to smoke will delay ambulance and tech and is no guarantee to work especially against houses. If you fail to push ost of the map he will have 2 AC out before you have a stuart and you've got no munis for mines or AT nades because they were wasted on smoke.

Smoke nades are a terrible choice when ost spams mgs because they are usually skipping t1, and you will be facing t2 units which nades are ineffective.

So you are saying that he has 3 mgs in the field before you have rifleman in the field?

USF have easily 1 RE and 1-2 Rifles against the first mg & pio spotting, if it is failed you have again 1-2 re, 2-3 rifles against 1-2 mgs & 1-2 pios. If give OST a way to dig in somewhere they will, they should be harassed early on and their movement screened.

And seriously the firing pit nade is awesome, get one behind shot blocker that can bombard green covers and houses is a bless. They don't have anything appart mortar against it in tier 1.

3 mg opening? May i ask which rank you play at?

Btw if ost skips t1 he wont have a mainline infantry. If he gets some Kind of replacement (prosttruppen,assgrens etc) they wont be able to Faust. Your light vehicles can Basicly drive up to every teamweapon without having to worry too much. If you have problems with fast 222, try to get double zooks on RE, or better 2x RE with double zook.

I rank between 250 and 500, depending on how interested i am in the game.

3 mg openings occur about 15% of the time. 2 mgs are standard 80% of the time ime.

Too be clear, i don't have trouble vs mgs or fast 222. I know how to flank, I know the counters and when to get them and I am aware what ost can and can't do when skipping t1. When I asked earlier how else to counter the build i described, it was not to seek advise, rather it was to demonstrate the flaws in usf design. Why should i spend 25 fuel to counter a t0 unit, which in turn delays my healing and own vehicle. Why should I have to lock in a doctrine to get flames or mines.

So you are saying that he has 3 mgs in the field before you have rifleman in the field?

USF have easily 1 RE and 1-2 Rifles against the first mg & pio spotting, if it is failed you have again 1-2 re, 2-3 rifles against 1-2 mgs & 1-2 pios. If give OST a way to dig in somewhere they will, they should be harassed early on and their movement screened.

And seriously the firing pit nade is awesome, get one behind shot blocker that can bombard green covers and houses is a bless. They don't have anything appart mortar against it in tier 1.

Mg 42 cost 260.

Rifles cost 280.

Both are t0 units.

Usf will not out number ost early game.

If a rifle squad gets suppressed and another squad is not nearby to flank it has to retreat meaning ost has superior numbers in field. If a mg is in a house or soft retreats to a house the rifle squad cannot get it out of the house.

Fighting pit is a very short term counter ( in most instances ) that will in most cases be destroyed once any vehicle arrives which is simply a waste of mp.

For the record, i only go morter if ost is camping in houses and i want to wait on making a doctrine choice. Most times 1 morter is sufficient, but if the game becomes frustrating because there is 3 or more mgs on the field then i will go double morter.

Usf will not out number ost early game.

Not sure if misunderstanding is my fault or readers. So what i meant:

- US has possibility to get area superiority because of better mobility than MGs.
1. Infantry can get there faster. MG cannot jump over fences.
2. Evenly spread MGs cannot protect each other and get more easily over run
3. If they are all in the same spot then maybe it would be better to cap something else.
4. It is even possible to anticipate where they are putting the mg and act accordingly.
And yeah OKW can do this fighting MG thing with more expensive infantry and without nades (tier-0) and smokes.

And Yeah i know its possibly to push to base with MGs. This is'nt just OST vs USF, brits and even SOV can do it as well. Just the matter being Unlucky and outplayed.

Fighting pit is a very short term counter ( in most instances ) that will in most cases be destroyed once any vehicle arrives which is simply a waste of mp.

If you know what the enemy is going to do then use it against him. Light vehicles come to kill it so kill that light vehicle with AT then. does term Fleet-in-being mean anything?

And simply that "waste of MP" bought you more room to manouver so you didnt waste it. And its acting as a fleet-in-being meaning that enemy is going to counter it somehow and use it against him..

Would you say you wasted MP with AT-gun if enemy did'nt use vehicles?
Wouldnt it be a waste of Popcap too?. And it would be waste of MP income also. Firing pit isn't. Every time it is repaired after attack on it mean that enemy used their DPS for nothing more than couple of seconds of you RE time costing MP for them.

For the record, i only go morter if ost is camping in houses and i want to wait on making a doctrine choice. Most times 1 morter is sufficient, but if the game becomes frustrating because there is 3 or more mgs on the field then i will go double morter.

Your lose then, i build it everytime because it saves so much manpower, it wipes every stationary unit in its firing circle. negates any cover used by grens and blows up pios trying to mine.

Give USF a jeep t0! That would open up a little gameplay! Not the commander one but the old COH US jeep. Move mortar to t1. Solved?

USF needed mortar, pack howitzer can't counter early mg spam.

USF needs something to clean building faster and more reliable than grenade. Not a jeep.

USF needed mortar, pack howitzer can't counter early mg spam.

How did CoH1 players ever manage to deal with MGs without using a mortar? Oh wait, it's called being a good player and learning how to flank lel.

How did CoH1 players ever manage to deal with MGs without using a mortar? Oh wait, it's called being a good player and learning how to flank lel.

What are you talking about? Coh1 players had the option of getting a mortar. They just had to use Mgs instead of rifles. Coh2 USF didn't have a choice at all.

How did CoH1 players ever manage to deal with MGs without using a mortar? Oh wait, it's called being a good player and learning how to flank lel.

Stop compairing coh1 and coh2 already, it's not working.

I'm just saying, CoH2 players are bad and not willing to learn how to flank or buy grenades.

How did CoH1 players ever manage to deal with MGs without using a mortar? Oh wait, it's called being a good player and learning how to flank lel.

Alternatively, using Brit blob with lol charge Lt, or super Fire Up which gives no fuck to suppression. Also 3-man crew and narrower cone, not to mention vet purchase which means that vet2 MG would be a luxury. vCOH MG and COH2 are two separate thing.

If Americans in CoH1 could flank an MG position without mortars, true sight, or smoke grenades, and while the Wehrmacht has access to a bike for vision, there's no excuse for not being able to flank an MG in CoH2, except for lazy, bad play. That's why when good CoH1 players like Noggano, DevM, or Aimstrong show up, CoH2 players quickly get their asses kicked.

Again differences in army, Wehr needs MG because Volk is crap unless spam en masse or got supported by MG, also 2-man pios means Wehr needs to cap much more conservatively compared to Rifles with increase cap rate. Compared with COH2, OH got 4-man pios which can fight off Rifles and Cons in ambush, increased vision sight to help MG, much larger firing cone on OH MG to compensate for that SU got lol SC or Rifles need smoke, clearly you haven't seen the time when 4-man MG got normal acc received, MG spam is perfectly viable then, later throw in Elite Troop, vet 3 MG at 4 mins inside building is pratically unkillable without mortar.
Don't compare vCOH with COH2, different army, different mechanics, remember Von with Maxim spam, Sprice with RE spam/Cloud Car cheese?

If Americans in CoH1 could flank an MG position without mortars, true sight, or smoke grenades, and while the Wehrmacht has access to a bike for vision, there's no excuse for not being able to flank an MG in CoH2, except for lazy, bad play. That's why when good CoH1 players like Noggano, DevM, or Aimstrong show up, CoH2 players quickly get their asses kicked.

Just stop, you're just embarrassing yourself.

1. Coh1 rifles were cheaper and you could get more of them quicker
2. Coh1 rifles didn't have to purchase bars with munitions, meaning there were more munis for nades
3. Coh1 USF could choose to start with mortar and other support weapons, if the map was unfavorable for rifle flanking.
4. Coh1 rifles had jeeps which could spot for them
5. Coh1 MG42s didn't have AP rounds to counter supporting light armor as well
6. Coh1 MG42s had purchased vet and vet MG42s were rare
7. I'm pretty sure Coh1 MG42 had a smaller arc then the Coh2 MG42
8. COH1 balance is completely different then Coh2 balance