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COH2.ORG » Forums » Parlor Room » COH2 Central » COH2 Balance » USF didn't need a mortar.

USF didn't need a mortar.

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Superhet
15 Jul 2016, 15:18 PM
#141
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 15:04 PMOmega_Warrior

Just stop, you're just embarrassing yourself.

1. Coh1 rifles were cheaper and you could get more of them quicker
2. Coh1 rifles didn't have to purchase bars with munitions, meaning there were more munis for nades
3. Coh1 USF could choose to start with mortar and other support weapons, if the map was unfavorable for rifle flanking.
4. Coh1 rifles had jeeps which could spot for them
5. Coh1 MG42s didn't have AP rounds to counter supporting light armor as well
6. Coh1 MG42s had purchased vet and vet MG42s were rare
7. I'm pretty sure Coh1 MG42 had a smaller arc then the Coh2 MG42
8. COH1 balance is completely different then Coh2 balance


Don't forget a very significant factor that rifles capped faster in coh1.
Writes out of 2v2 perspective.
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vietnamabc
15 Jul 2016, 15:25 PM
#142
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Posts: 1063

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 15:18 PMSuperhet


Don't forget a very significant factor that rifles capped faster in coh1.

Also MG can't cap point while deployed either, 2-man pio, crappy Volk and no faust till T2 means your Jeep can harass with impunity.
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NEVEC
15 Jul 2016, 16:04 PM
#143
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Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 14:47 PMNosliw
CoH2 players are bad


Says guy without playercard.

Sure brit blob + arty or pe armored cars spam required so much skill.

We are talking about coh2 here, stfu coh1 whinners already, you are starting to be annoying.
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Mr.Smith
15 Jul 2016, 16:10 PM
#144
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Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 15:04 PMOmega_Warrior

8. COH1 balance is completely different then Coh2 balance


You forgot the most crucial aspect of CoH1 which made MGs counterable with infantry:
- Suppression works completely different in CoH2 than it did in CoH1.

In CoH2, suppression (not even pinning) is completely debilitating. In CoH1 you could throw grenades, or occasionally wiggle around even if pinned.

Let's not even mention abilities like Fire Up, Heroic Charge, KCH, or PE veterancy which made infantry completely ignore suppression platforms.
You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions

Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)
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Basilone
15 Jul 2016, 18:23 PM
#145
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Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 15:04 PMOmega_Warrior

Just stop, you're just embarrassing yourself.

1. Coh1 rifles were cheaper and you could get more of them quicker
2. Coh1 rifles didn't have to purchase bars with munitions, meaning there were more munis for nades
3. Coh1 USF could choose to start with mortar and other support weapons, if the map was unfavorable for rifle flanking.
4. Coh1 rifles had jeeps which could spot for them
5. Coh1 MG42s didn't have AP rounds to counter supporting light armor as well
6. Coh1 MG42s had purchased vet and vet MG42s were rare
7. I'm pretty sure Coh1 MG42 had a smaller arc then the Coh2 MG42
8. COH1 balance is completely different then Coh2 balance

Nope, you are. True sight + rifle smoke + vaulting more than mitigates all of the OH advantages over the COH1 counterpart. OH is fucking trash right now and they have been for a long time. Anyone complaining about struggling vs MG42s in this game seriously needs to get good, because you aren't good enough of a player mechanically speaking to make judgements on balance.

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 16:04 PMNEVEC


Says guy without playercard.

Sure brit blob + arty or pe armored cars spam required so much skill.

We are talking about coh2 here, stfu coh1 whinners already, you are starting to be annoying.

Coming from another guy without a playercard LOL. Nosliw made to round 4 or 5 in the last two 2v2 tournaments he played.

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NEVEC
15 Jul 2016, 18:39 PM
#146
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 18:23 PMBasilone


Coming from another guy without a playercard LOL. Nosliw made to round 4 or 5 in the last two 2v2 tournaments he played.



If you want to say someone ''you suck'' than you should post your playercard right here.
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CookiezNcreem
15 Jul 2016, 20:00 PM
#147
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stahp coh1 vs coh2.

coh2 players drool coh1 rules etc.

plz stahp
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Nosliw
15 Jul 2016, 20:28 PM
#148
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Posts: 515

I'm not trying to be a CoH1 elitist, I'm just saying, all these people whining that USF cannot compete with OST MG's without a mortar must simply just not be good players.

PS: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197985783392

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ofield
15 Jul 2016, 20:43 PM
#149
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Posts: 420

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jun 2016, 15:42 PMwuff
I don't understand why this unit was added.

The PAK howie is excellent, the USF didn't need another IDF unit.


The pack howi is excellent but comes too late for the needed task.
Therefore the usf needs a mortar, but does it need a mortar that strong? No. reduces damage to 60, reduce range to 10 smaller than the german one, reduce cost to 220 and call it 60mm mortar, done. (scatter and rof can stay as they are). This way pack howi wouldn't be obsolete and usf early game so damn absurd.
jump backJump back to quoted post11 Mar 2015, 07:35 AMKatitof
I will simply lol at anyone expecting such a change to a 2 year old general use infantry.
Equally possible are pershing for USF, IS-3 for soviets or ober nerf for OKW.
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Basilone
15 Jul 2016, 20:50 PM
#150
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Posts: 1944 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 20:28 PMNosliw
I'm not trying to be a CoH1 elitist, I'm just saying, all these people whining that USF cannot compete with OST MG's without a mortar must simply just not be good players.

PS: https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561197985783392

+1

This isn't a "COH1 better" issue, its a these kids literally can't even flank issue
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CookiezNcreem
15 Jul 2016, 20:53 PM
#151
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 20:28 PMNosliw
I'm just saying, all these people whining that USF cannot compete with OST MG's without a mortar must simply just not be good players.


And I would agree with that for sure, The mortar, if it was needed for anything was build order luxury and diversification; replacing smoke with mortar, replacing fast flamer ass engy with mortar, replacing boring 4x rifle with mortar, etc. Not to neccessarily give usf something they never had or 'needed'(mg counter) because they obviously have vaulting, true sight, smoke, op light vehicles, etc.

But I think thats been said already(i havent watched this whole thread)

theres just no need to say all* coh2 usf players suck dick in the same sentence though is all im saying haha
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Nosliw
15 Jul 2016, 20:57 PM
#152
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Posts: 515

I agree with you Cookiez, it's definitely nice to have the unit (even though it's broken at the moment), I was merely trying to comment on NEVEC who said USF needs the mortar specifically because nades and pak howi are ineffective at dealing with MGs. I don't even know why I commented. Trying to convince people anything is pointless.

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Gdot
15 Jul 2016, 20:57 PM
#153
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Posts: 1166 | Subs: 1

They need a mortar to clear buildings in the early game. This is because of being doctrinal, no snipers and nades coming too late.

I think people are upset because the mortar is broken right now. Lets see after patch and revisit.
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InfiniteDakka
15 Jul 2016, 21:08 PM
#154
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Posts: 42

To reiterate what many have said, the concept of a us t0 mortar is good. The power at the moment is not.
I'm most in favor of reducing damage/aoe. Having an early option to indirectly pressure static mgs is a good idea, but it shouldn't overshadow the cpt tier pack howitzer, which should be the tool to punch through anything on its own.
Once it's balanced it will have effectively added strategic diversity as they intended, but when it's the best option overall that only reduces diversity.
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Budwise
15 Jul 2016, 21:11 PM
#155
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 20:57 PMGdot
They need a mortar to clear buildings in the early game. This is because of being doctrinal, no snipers and nades coming too late.


Wut... Like 3 minutes into the game too late?

USF doesn't need a mortar... In T0 no less...
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elchino7
15 Jul 2016, 21:23 PM
#156
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 21:11 PMBudwise


Wut... Like 3 minutes into the game too late?

USF doesn't need a mortar... In T0 no less...


Non flame nades have always been a band aid against garrison.

I'm failing to see the point of the thread, when 95% of the community thinks the current mortar is OP and we need AT LEAST the one which was tested on the beta AND it would be better if it was actually a 60mm mortar (if model can't be used just tweak stats)
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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Gdot
15 Jul 2016, 21:56 PM
#157
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 21:11 PMBudwise


Wut... Like 3 minutes into the game too late?

USF doesn't need a mortar... In T0 no less...


I should have elaborated.

Its not only the fuel to tech to nades but you don't typically have much muni either. A good player can make your early smoke/nade a very poor investment. Maps with critical buildings only complicate things because there's no guarantee for a nade to clear or even a damage unit.
Therefore, I think USF Nades are more for mid to late game, imo. This is due to the player having a small number of units on the field in the early game. A few units are much easier to micro and dodge. The mortar fills a gap for the USF core army.

As far as the tier goes, I think you are right. Also the pack howi, motor carriage and mortar feels redundant.
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Budwise
15 Jul 2016, 21:57 PM
#158
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Honestly if it were T2 I'd say fine. It just shouldnt be T0. Even Ost and Russians you have to have the building for them you don't just get them from T0.
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Gdot
15 Jul 2016, 22:01 PM
#159
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 21:57 PMBudwise
Honestly if it were T2 I'd say fine. It just shouldnt be T0. Even Ost and Russians you have to have the building for them you don't just get them from T0.


Haha totally. It almost seems like Relic didn't pay that much attention when implementing this unit. As crazy as that sounds. :banana:
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Gdot
15 Jul 2016, 22:05 PM
#160
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jul 2016, 21:57 PMBudwise
Honestly if it were T2 I'd say fine. It just shouldnt be T0. Even Ost and Russians you have to have the building for them you don't just get them from T0.


Addition: What if they moved HMG to t0 and mortar to Lieutenant? You think something like that would work?
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