Rebalancing the Stuka Dive Bomb
13 Jun 2016, 15:37 PM
#81
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Ok, in that case, can we get precision strike with B-4 for 180ammo avaible at 12CPs?
13 Jun 2016, 16:03 PM
#82
Posts: 1063
I did some detective work on coh2stats and I found the following:
The Stuka-Dive Ninja-buff has increased the killing area by at least 5 times (for no reason)
If we look at the stats over at http://www.coh2-stats.com/explosive_weapons/stuka_500_lb_bomb_mp we can conclude that:
- The ninja-buff MUST have added the insta-gib death critical (the radius of the pre-buff and the post-buff Stuka are identical, but the performance is nowhere the same)
- The one-hit-kill radius used to be 6.5
- The proposed nerf (Miragefla's mod) will knock the killing radius down to 9.5 (that's already better than pre-ninja)
Thus, the ninja-buff increased the killing radius from 6.5 to 15 (that's an area).
If the Stuka Dive Bomb wasn't UP before, and nobody ever asked for a buff, why did it merit a 5-times increase of the killing area?
(also added to OP)
Looks like somebody fudged with the number again, why am I not surprised? Remember when AEC got 5x radius AOE? Remember Salvage Arty one shot pizza base?
13 Jun 2016, 16:18 PM
#83
Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1
It's not meta so you can nerf it as much as you want, 99% wont notice anyway.
Offtopic: ill Pop a 3l bottle of champaign if I Spot an pro axis post by Mr. Smith
Offtopic: ill Pop a 3l bottle of champaign if I Spot an pro axis post by Mr. Smith
13 Jun 2016, 16:48 PM
#84
Posts: 51
Ok, in that case, can we get precision strike with B-4 for 180ammo avaible at 12CPs?
and can we get all purpose mine and demolition for ostheer?
13 Jun 2016, 17:26 PM
#85
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
and can we get all purpose mine and demolition for ostheer?
And then let's give bunkers for the Soviets!
Caches for OKW!
Flamethrowers for USF!
AT snares for UKF!
I could go on to kill half an hour but fuck that!
13 Jun 2016, 17:26 PM
#86
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
and can we get all purpose mine and demolition for ostheer?
Your point?
Tho I'd pick teller mine and AI mine, over universal ones.
I rememeber how people were whining about precision, that you can't dodge it, uncounterable etc.
Guess what, you can hear loud firing sound around 5secs before hitt (depends what map and the distance) but time to react is quite similar to dive bomb, but it has smaller AoE. So if dive bomb is all right, let's make B-4 useful again.
13 Jun 2016, 17:29 PM
#87
Posts: 266
Ok, in that case, can we get precision strike with B-4 for 180ammo avaible at 12CPs?Would be nice to have some love for B4, i would love precision strike for 60 muni.
13 Jun 2016, 19:12 PM
#88
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
If the Stuka Dive Bomb wasn't UP before, and nobody ever asked for a buff, why did it merit a 5-times increase of the killing area?
Relic works in mysterious ways. Ninjas, ninjas always find a way.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
13 Jun 2016, 19:32 PM
#89
4 
Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
Ok, from reading the posts Mr. Smith has laid out a powerful argument for why dive bomb should be nerfed (and it obviously does), and I see no good argument for why it shouldn't.I got one. There are SEVERAL forum posters as we witnessed in this very thread that will be absolutely devastated by any such nerf, as evidenced by their repeated whining and insistence that Ostheer will not be able to win any games if this totally balanced ability is nerfed. Do you want them to never win a game again?
13 Jun 2016, 19:34 PM
#90
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
I got one. There are SEVERAL forum posters as we witnessed in this very thread that will be absolutely devastated by any such nerf, as evidenced by their repeated whining and insistence that Ostheer will not be able to win any games if this totally balanced ability is nerfed. Do you want them to never win a game again?
Subtle.
13 Jun 2016, 19:48 PM
#91
Posts: 708 | Subs: 1
Tho I'd pick teller mine and AI mine, over universal ones.
Hahah, lol.
13 Jun 2016, 20:02 PM
#92
4 Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
I remember that when the Stuka dive bomb radius was increased - I think it was during British Forces alpha, but I could be wrong on that account - it was explicitly mentioned in the change log that the change to the radius was so that THE LETHAL AREA OF EFFECT WILL MATCH THE COSMETICS OF THE STUKA STRIKE EFFECT PARTICLES.
At that time literally nobody complained about that the dive bomb was underperforming. And the ability got a colossal buff without CP, timing, or cost adjustment.
At that time literally nobody complained about that the dive bomb was underperforming. And the ability got a colossal buff without CP, timing, or cost adjustment.
13 Jun 2016, 20:02 PM
#93
Posts: 73
13 Jun 2016, 20:11 PM
#94
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Hahah, lol.
I need to explain? lel, ok.
What if I told you that I prefer specific mines over universal, because they are more effective than universal?
Or sometimes I may just want to plant a mine which WON'T explode when infantry will stand on it?
Or make a combo of s-field with teller mine next to it (but far enough so s-mines won't launch it) so enemy which uses vehicle to run over s field with confidence suddenly drives over teller.
And many other reasons..
13 Jun 2016, 21:05 PM
#95
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
I need to explain? lel, ok.
What if I told you that I prefer specific mines over universal, because they are more effective than universal?
Or sometimes I may just want to plant a mine which WON'T explode when infantry will stand on it?
Or make a combo of s-field with teller mine next to it (but far enough so s-mines won't launch it) so enemy which uses vehicle to run over s field with confidence suddenly drives over teller.
And many other reasons..
Lots of people might not like AP mines over the current general-purpose mines, which is understandable, but when they change general-purpose mines to never one-shot infantry models, the advantage of S-Mines should get pretty obvious then.
13 Jun 2016, 21:11 PM
#96
Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1
Lots of people might not like AP mines over the current general-purpose mines, which is understandable, but when they change general-purpose mines to never one-shot infantry models, the advantage of S-Mines should get pretty obvious then.
I thought the same, mine change will give smine Feld finally a real purpose..But wrong. Every little smine triggers suppression so they barely lose anything because they stop walking as soon as the first mines goes up , which kills 1 model most likely.
13 Jun 2016, 21:21 PM
#97
Posts: 794
But wrong. Every little smine triggers suppressionThat needs to be looked at.
Wow.
I got one. There are SEVERAL forum posters as we witnessed in this very thread that will be absolutely devastated by any such nerf, as evidenced by their repeated whining and insistence that Ostheer will not be able to win any games if this totally balanced ability is nerfed. Do you want them to never win a game again?And similiarly there are tens of forum 'regulars' who are nervously lobbying relic to remove/nerf the only single ability which has the potential to wipe their blobs or support spam.
But guess what, it won't happen. There is a 10 seconds delay and an EarDrum perforating siren. If you lose anything to this offmap then you should look for other genres.
13 Jun 2016, 21:36 PM
#98
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
I thought the same, mine change will give smine Feld finally a real purpose..But wrong. Every little smine triggers suppression so they barely lose anything because they stop walking as soon as the first mines goes up , which kills 1 model most likely.
I think they fixed that, just tested...unless the suppression only doesn't work against the CPU, which would be an even weirder bug.
13 Jun 2016, 21:39 PM
#99
Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1
I think they fixed that, just tested...unless the suppression only doesn't work against the CPU, which would be an even weirder bug.
Oh im sorry i dont have a PC for months and this was the case at release of the preview mod.
13 Jun 2016, 21:42 PM
#100
4 Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
That needs to be looked at.Here it is, happening to #2 on the ladder at the time.
But guess what, it won't happen. There is a 10 seconds delay and an EarDrum perforating siren. If you lose anything to this offmap then you should look for other genres.
In b4 specific excuses for how this case in particular is special but your generalization still stands.
Also, you can't deal with blobs as Ostheer, the faction that literally gets the best blob control machine gun in the entire game, as well as an alpha strike, non-doctrinal rocket artillery, and you still depend on stuka dive bomb as the sole blob defender?
The fact that the dive bomb also negates set up weapon teams and can force the reposition of up to 3 players just in case you are being aimed at by it... and the fact it is incredibly easy to catch this sound too late in team games (assuming the siren doesn't bug out, which it does sometimes), is awfully convenient... but I am sure you only use this ability for fair purposes of anti-blob.
Also, nice of you to indirectly argue for removal of smoke from the IL-2 bombing run. After all, it's a blob control weapon. They should add a strong propeller sound 5 seconds before the bombs drop (so, on larger maps, AFTER the plane is visible on the map) to make it fair.
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