How to Use P4?

I'm not sure how to use this unit effectively. It comes at a time when I really need a breakthrough tank, yet it doesn't really break through much of anything. It's squishy and is normally relegated to being a deterrent for allied light tanks/shermans. Not to mention for some reason it never trades well with cromwells or light AT infantry because its main gun accuracy seems horrible. Thoughts? Tips?

upgrade with MG and slaughter inf, thats basically it

oh, and avoid at guns/tanks ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Those reasons you listed are why you should never build one. It is always easily penetrated by the cromwell while failing to do so 6/10 times. It dies to USF Cpt/AT nade and it is outclassed by the SU call ins or dies to free shrecks and oorah+AT nades.


- If you have a fuel advantage; tech to T4, build a panther
- If you are behind in map control; stall for callins, use PGrens or 2xpaks

- If your inf aren't vet or upgraded and you also need AT; then that is a bad situation and can't be saved.


tl;dr: The PIV is the worst medium in game in terms of cost efficiency and performance. Don't bother.

Demon of inf machine, i really like the P4, you need to use with your grens and always refuse close combat with it stay out of AT grenade range and dive on crippled tanks only when you are sure, best getting 2 of them in combination with a Tiger

But if you don't have the armor advantge go for stugs

It's better to get a StuG G then get a P4 second. StuG G is so cheap and the p4 comes so late anyway, it's better to have a tank destroyer out on the field for the inevitable allied tank. P4 isn't enough of a shock unit to rush by itself. With the two tanks you have a good chance of killing the opponents tank, which will give you free roam with the p4 to rape all the infantry.

It deals easily with any tank of its timing or earlier except for cromwell. Cromwell has an edge thanks to small target size, you just shouldn't try to 1v1 cromwell with the p4. In all other matchups it is really good, especially against infantry. It is also fast enough to work as counter harassment unit.

Remember to hit stop button just before it fires. Even if it doesn't stop, the fact that you hit the button makes all shots twice as accurate (or you could think of it as all enemy tanks having twice the target size) untill you give another move order. This actually does a huge difference, It can also lure a cromwell into a trap of trying to flank your p4 while you have a pak in range.

Very fast good armor with vet 2-3 blitz @ vet 1 good gun vs inf, tanks
IMO great breakthru tank with blitz in particular
Comes early better thn stug with inf advantage

It's better to get a StuG G then get a P4 second. StuG G is so cheap and the p4 comes so late anyway, it's better to have a tank destroyer out on the field for the inevitable allied tank. P4 isn't enough of a shock unit to rush by itself. With the two tanks you have a good chance of killing the opponents tank, which will give you free roam with the p4 to rape all the infantry.

Same here but alternatively you can go Puma/P4 or StugE/P4, both this unit also fits well with P4, the strength of P4 is that it can fit into any army composition while having some of the best vet bonus in the game (I'm looking at T-34!).

Panzer IV is really bad. It doesn't penetrate armor well and misses a lot. It's better to have a stug and an ostwind rather 2 PIV's.

Panzer IV is really bad. It doesn't penetrate armor well and misses a lot. It's better to have a stug and an ostwind rather 2 PIV's.

Ostwind is trash. Atleast with a p4 you can get some lucky wipes and beat back mediums, for only a little bit more fuel.

Ostwind is trash. Atleast with a p4 you can get some lucky wipes and beat back mediums, for only a little bit more fuel.

Ostwind is a beast when stationary = defensive asset, you're not using it the same way as a P4 which is best used offensively. Now I agree on the fact, it isn't the first tank you build in 1vs1 as much as a Scott isn't the first tank you build in 1vs1 as USF.

stug = counter medium tanks
Pz4 = counter light tanks (stuart/AEC/T70) with a good anti-infantry potential and then with vet can go toes to toes with mediums
It is really important to understand what you are building and what for.

Now, how to use a Pz4, like any other medium tank, with comprehension and not getting too greedy with it. Use it as an armored backbone support for a general offensive and not like a lone hunter that will get hit once by an AT and then naded and engine broken till its death.
you have MG42/Grenadiers/Mortar/Sniper to move with, taking advantageous positions on the middle of the map with its support. And when you do have consolidate your new position, move it around to kill flankers.

My personal playstyle does not include Pz4, I usually go for a 2 stugs because I'm counting on my skill to soft counter early light tanks (2x 222) while enforcing my AI power and then have stugs ready for the mediums.

Ostwind is a beast when stationary = defensive asset, you're not using it the same way as a P4 which is best used offensively. Now I agree on the fact, it isn't the first tank you build in 1vs1 as much as a Scott isn't the first tank you build in 1vs1 as USF.

stug = counter medium tanks
Pz4 = counter light tanks (stuart/AEC/T70) with a good anti-infantry potential and then with vet can go toes to toes with mediums
It is really important to understand what you are building and what for.

I gotta say, anything the Ostwind can do the p4 can do. Ostwind might be a little better against blobs, but it will almost never wipe squads, like the p4 can with some rng. For just a little more fuel you can get out the p4 and also have it counter tanks. It is just not worth it to get the Ostwind as Ostheer. It's the same thing with the scott, you are better off saving your time and fuel waiting for the extra fuel for the sherman.

Ostwinds are just so inaccurate and inconsistent.

I gotta say, anything the Ostwind can do the p4 can do. Ostwind might be a little better against blobs, but it will almost never wipe squads, like the p4 can with some rng. For just a little more fuel you can get out the p4 and also have it counter tanks. It is just not worth it to get the Ostwind as Ostheer. It's the same thing with the scott, you are better off saving your time and fuel waiting for the extra fuel for the sherman.

Ostwind deals massive damage in minimum time while Pz4 deals a bit more consistent damage in more time. With an Ostwind, you get in position, unload your firepower, move and reload, stop and unload, etc... With a stug around or a pak, this unit is a much more bigger threat than a Pz4 because you can't really kill it with your medium unless you are already in superior position.
Facing a blob, an HMG42 + Ostwind is just incomparable with a HMG42 and a Pz4.
Facing usual non-blobbing strategy, Ostwind is a defensive asset able to lock down a territory in a much reliable way than a Pz4.
the turret is moving faster, shot faster, better scatter, the unit itself isn't slower than a Pz4.
I don't really know what you want more. 1 Stug + 1 Ostwind is much less expensive than 2 Pz4 or 1 stug + 1 Pz4. they are just specialized unit that need a bit more of micro than Pz4 to be performing well.

As mainly USF player around rank 150 I prefer to see 1 or 2 Pz4 than Stug and Ostwind in front of me. Now maybe it changes a lot around rank 50.
I also think it is a question of preference, I understand the need for a generalist unit you can rely on to counter armor and infantry but when I play Ostheer I like more using specialized units

P4 is definately not a breakthrough tank though u wish it was after being trolled by their light tanks in the early game. If your opponent is still using a T 70/Stuart/AEC to his heart's content, go for the p4. If you already killed it and it has been replaced by some sort of medium armor, stug may not be a bad choice. The stug has always had a love or hate relationship with many ost players. Its harder to micro and you should keep it supported with other antitank units. The p4 cannot reliably penetrate medium armor but the stug almost always penetrates. Always put you stug in an open area with good sightlines and never drive it into tight corners to finish off enemy armor. Its ok to let the tank go if the only piece of armor u have is a stug. Get a p4 or schreck in addition to the stug to finish off the tank. Or bait the enemy into a pak and use target weak point. The combined shot of a pak and stug will guarantee the kill before the stun wears off (3 shots needed after the stun.) No chasing required.

Ostwind is a beast when stationary = defensive asset, you're not using it the same way as a P4 which is best used offensively. Now I agree on the fact, it isn't the first tank you build in 1vs1 as much as a Scott isn't the first tank you build in 1vs1 as USF.

stug = counter medium tanks
Pz4 = counter light tanks (stuart/AEC/T70) with a good anti-infantry potential and then with vet can go toes to toes with mediums
It is really important to understand what you are building and what for.

Now, how to use a Pz4, like any other medium tank, with comprehension and not getting too greedy with it. Use it as an armored backbone support for a general offensive and not like a lone hunter that will get hit once by an AT and then naded and engine broken till its death.
you have MG42/Grenadiers/Mortar/Sniper to move with, taking advantageous positions on the middle of the map with its support. And when you do have consolidate your new position, move it around to kill flankers.

My personal playstyle does not include Pz4, I usually go for a 2 stugs because I'm counting on my skill to soft counter early light tanks (2x 222) while enforcing my AI power and then have stugs ready for the mediums.

So your going to have 2 222s doing nothing until the stuart gets within faust range? 420mp and 30 fuel doing nothing. If u reveal to a USF player that u built 2 222's hes going to get a stuart and easily stun + kill the 222s. The only way to kill stuart with 222's is to let the stuart get within faust range, then faust it, make sure your 222s are at full health, then drive behind the stuart, pray to the RNG gods, and hope the captain is nowhere near to support, and hope the stuart doesn't use the stun. This strat works for all other vehicles though. (For the aec you need 3 222s to be sure)

So your going to have 2 222s doing nothing until the stuart gets within faust range? 420mp and 30 fuel doing nothing. If u reveal to a USF player that u built 2 222's hes going to get a stuart and easily stun + kill the 222s. The only way to kill stuart with 222's is to let the stuart get within faust range, then faust it, make sure your 222s are at full health, then drive behind the stuart, pray to the RNG gods, and hope the captain is nowhere near to support, and hope the stuart doesn't use the stun. This strat works for all other vehicles though. (For the aec you need 3 222s to be sure)

I usually reach late game with at least 1 222 vet3 if I build 2, so no I don't do anything with my 222s. 222 are great to scout and protect your flanks. And don't be stupid, you have your 222s before he has 1 stuart so he builds it to counter you.

You are too much in the theorycrafting around "If I build that, he'll build that and then this will happens then I don't build it so nothing happens". No, you build it and you know he'll be trying to counter you so simply be prepared.

1) Use Pz.IV conservatively. It is your attrition tool. It doesn't drain MP when being damaged.
2) Can be used more aggresively once vet 1 because of blitz.
3) On vet 2 it can consistently 1v1 any medium tank of same class, as far as I know.

Always minesweep the area where you plan to use your Pz.IV.

p4 is a support tank