Panzer commander vs Tank commander

The panzer commander cost 30 muni is doctrinal and gives you a 6 los buff and the abillty to call down a 120 muni 4 shell arty that takes 11-12 to land while the tank commander cots 25 muni gives you 10 los buff, 10% more accuracy, 20% faster vet gain, can detect units in camouflage from 20 range.

Its clear that these abillites need to be balanced out. There is no reason to go for the panzer commander over the mg since the buffs it gives are bad for a doctrinal abillty and the offmap can be avoided withe ease due to its long time to hit and small aeo.

I would say that the tank commader is op for that price and the bonuses it gives.

Yeah but Relic is just too slow for everything...

increase cost for the tank commander i guess? it seems you just get so much for so little which seems to be a common thing on the British faction.

Yep, all brit tanks get tank commander and if they go hammer they even get free blitz at vet 0. All you have to do it repair it. Not even to full health.

German equivalent?

You must pick 1 of 2 commanders that have spotting scopes. Upgrade it for 30 munitions (instead of 25 lol). And you must be stationary to get any sight and it doesnt provide any other sort of buffs. You must first get vet 1 to even unlock blitz, then you need to pay 30 munis each time you wanna use it.


When do you use blitz? Usually to either get away from a fight safely, or dive into a fight to finish something off. In both cases you'll need repairs after so the fact that REs have to repair the tank to get war speed back is garbage.

Brits are the value faction for sure. I cant understand why they are not higher in win ratio rankings. Axis tanks have to upgrade to mg in order to compete with AI of vanilla brit tanks. So you cant even get commander AND mg like brits can.

A cost increase for the UKF tank commander is needed (40-50 munitions?) but I don't think a buff to the OKW one would go amiss. Increasing the LOS bonus to 10 would be good, as would a cost reduction to the artillery.

Brits are the value faction for sure. I cant understand why they are not higher in win ratio rankings. Axis tanks have to upgrade to mg in order to compete with AI of vanilla brit tanks. So you cant even get commander AND mg like brits can.

The problem with current UKF (and most new factions) is that their crutch units and abilities cover up weaknesses in the faction. Unless the crutches are completely OP (which UKF's generally aren't in 1v1), it's unlikely that the faction will have the top win-rate.

god forbid allies have something axis doesn't

OKW tank commander sucks, but thats not a reason to nerf UK stuff no one is complaining about

god forbid allies have something axis doesn't

OKW tank commander sucks, but thats not a reason to nerf UK stuff no one is complaining about

i am complaining now and for a good reason as you can see. even with no panzer commander at all, those tank commander buffs are to much for a 25 muni non doctrinal upgrade. dont you agree?

imagine if the axis tanks had those buffs plus non doctrinal blitz plus non doctrinal smoke (white phosphorus) on lets say the p4 and panther that you can shoot at guns and burn them from well over 60 range and has what 5 sec cool down with 20 muni cost? i sure you would be one of the first here to write about it

i am complaining now and for a good reason as you can see. even with no panzer commander at all, those tank commander buffs are to much for a 25 muni non doctrinal upgrade. dont you agree?

imagine if the axis tanks had those buffs plus non doctrinal blitz plus non doctrinal smoke (white phosphorus) on lets say the p4 and panther that you can shoot at guns and burn them from well over 60 range and has what 5 sec cool down with 20 muni cost? i sure you would be one of the first here to write about it

Every factions characteristics do not mean to be the same.

For example, soviet IL-2 is way too UP compare to other airplanes.
Or USF or UKF cannot have stock map hack, rocket artillery, heavy tank like OKW.
And OKW can upgrade top machinegun to anti-infantry and anti-air without going doctrine.

By versus, you try to compare two abilities while ignoring the rest of factions capabilities just because you know you won't win argument by doing so.

UK has many problems, tank commander is certainly not one of those.

Every factions characteristics do not mean to be the same.

For example, soviet IL-2 is way too UP compare to other airplanes.
Or USF or UKF cannot have stock map hack, rocket artillery, heavy tank like OKW.
And OKW can upgrade top machinegun to anti-infantry and anti-air without going doctrine.

By versus, you try to compare two abilities while ignoring the rest of factions capabilities just because you know you won't win argument by doing so.

here i go.

the IL 2 cost less there for and can and will wipe squads with around 70% hp

if you can reveal a small portion of the map i would not call it a map hack. the partisan doc abillty, the g43 upgrade interrogation and the signal relay are map hacks, the IR ht is as much as a maphack as a reacon plane (take away the muni cost and the durability). ukf have the valentine tank with the same but better "map hack" even tho in a bad doc atm but still.

ukf have mortar pits, bofor barage, 2 free howies witch with some commanders counter all non veichle based arty, and can even shoot in the FOW and be buffed buy the anvil specialization. i would take this over the pwerfer or stuka any day.

tell me would you rather have the mg or the buffs that the tank commader gives? i think all of us would pick the tank commander.

thing is that ukf does everything other armies do but it does it better.

double brens, double pitas, best healing in the game, 5 man upgrade, repair unit high dps for low cost witch can take two brens and an lmg with anvil, can destroy cover, a sinper that can couter the 222, an at gun that has more accuracy then other at guns, has fast and cheap teching, best medium tank in the game for its price, best tank destroyer (+tulips), best repairs in game, a pak 43 copy with brace witch can pen world objects with its special shot and spot for its self with units inside or when near the retreat point, a retreat point where you can take wepons and upgrade it to a repair station with a commnader and it can drop arty, best offmaps in the game etc.. the list goes on and on. this shows that if brits lack one thing like a snare on the main inf they make it up with 3 more things.

the point is these two abilites are the same but one is soooooo muche better that its op while the other is usless.

I've no idea what the proper cost for OKW Panzer Commander should be. The main reason is that OKW has so much, and so abundant recon abilities, that a LOS increase on their tanks seems redundant. I've never used the artillery ability before, so I can't comment. (Also, if you really want recon, build a Command Panther. Done.)

However, there's no denying that UKF Tank Commander & Emergency Warspeed are a bit over-the-top.

Emergency Warspeed should function like the Ostheer version:
- Lighter tanks get better version of the ability than heavier tanks
- This is why the OST Panther seems balanced, whereas the OKW Panther turns into a race-car (OKW Combat Blitz behaves like an Emergency Warspeed on steroids)
- I have no opinion about the availability (small munition cost? require the engineers to repair longer to activate?)

Regarding Tank Commander, the bonuses are also too much. The cost is so incredibly tiny too, that it makes the upgrade a no-brainer.
- Veterancy-gain should probably gtfo
- Detection radius should be moved to the AEC. The UC is a terrible sniper hunter. This doesn't mean that the Cromwell fleet should detect invisible units though. Better give it to a dedicated unit.
- The ability should retain its Accuracy bonus (so that it remains reasonable to upgrade all tanks (including Fireflies)
- The LOS bonus is questionably high, and could go down. Currently it gives Cromwells/Comets the same sight-range as Volksgrenadiers (not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing)

Now, regarding the fact that Brit tanks have no pintle MG. Think about it. Does pintle MG help USF, when:
- Panzerschreck range equals MG range? (do you want to spend all your time repairing?)
- We have Pak-walls

I've no idea what the proper cost for OKW Panzer Commander should be. The main reason is that OKW has so much, and so abundant recon abilities, that a LOS increase on their tanks seems redundant. I've never used the artillery ability before, so I can't comment. (Also, if you really want recon, build a Command Panther. Done.)

i would rather call them scouting options since that units provide the los. okw flares reacon planes etc i would call reacon. and that scouting options are the comad panther, puma with vet, vloks with vet, jeagers, fussies with g43s, IR ht, other armies have a lot of things to scout with as well.

Two words: Power Creep.

here i go.

***trash stuff***

the point is these two abilites are the same but one is soooooo muche better that its op while the other is usless.

Sorry, but tldr. And I don't want to derail the topic any further.

So in summary you do not want to admit that axis have better stock while crying about allies stuffs that axis don't have. What happen if axis and allies stuffs are reversed? You can do that right now! Try playing allies and see for yourself.

Sorry, but tldr. And I don't want to derail the topic any further.

So in summary you do not want to admit that axis have better stock while crying about allies stuffs that axis don't have. What happen if axis and allies stuffs are reversed? You can do that right now! Try playing allies and see for yourself.

i do play allies in team games i know what i am talking about form using abillites and playing vs them

trash stuff is more or less facts.

sure there are better stock units on the axis side, kt, sniper, mg, etc but there are better stock stuff on the allies side asswell. my point was to prove that ukf is far from beaing weak that they need op stuff to make up for some thing lacking.

the point of this thread is the panzer commader and the tank commader. if you feel that ukf needs some buffs make your thread, state your opinion i would be glad to leave my comment.

So now it's the tank commander that got butchered! I haven't heard anyone complained about this since the Brits released!

I mean sure it sounds overpowered compare to the Panzer Commander, but that's not the problem. You are comparing 2 units in 2 factions, which not gonna solve anything since these two factions OVERALL are quite fairly balance (Minus the Advance Cancer but that is something for another day)

What I'm trying to say is that there will be something in one faction that seem overpower to its similar feature in another faction but of course there will be something else that underpowered, and that's it! These OPs and UPs' features are those that make factions unique, provide different flavors, not just one faction being copied 5 times.

So now it's the tank commander that got butchered! I haven't heard anyone complained about this since the Brits released!

I mean sure it sounds overpowered compare to the Panzer Commander, but that's not the problem. You are comparing 2 units in 2 factions, which not gonna solve anything since these two factions OVERALL are quite fairly balance (Minus the Advance Cancer but that is something for another day)

What I'm trying to say is that there will be something in one faction that seem overpower to its similar feature in another faction but of course there will be something else that underpowered, and that's it! These OPs and UPs' features are those that make factions unique, provide different flavors, not just one faction being copied 5 times.

people didnt complain since all they can see is the bigger balance issues. this one is smaller.

i complained and you can see why. im not comparig 2 units from 2 faction i am comparing allmost similar abillties.

the thiing is that everything should be balanced not op or up and right now this two abillites are not balanced

this abillity has be copyed and made better cheaper and non doctrinal

Birts upgrade is fine, aside from the vet boost.


The OKW one might need some tweaks but it is also OK. Don't underestimate the arty call in, since you can charge into AT walls and clear the remaining crews.

Birts upgrade is fine, aside from the vet boost.


The OKW one might need some tweaks but it is also OK. Don't underestimate the arty call in, since you can charge into AT walls and clear the remaining crews.

sure its good if the at gun (not at guns) dont move for 12 sec but it will move as it sees the red flares. the off map is fine but the tank has to drop it from close distance and the time for it to hit is too long