Conscripts - when being a looser is your fate

And another thing you have to take in mind. You have the ultra ranged kat, capable of wiping 3 models with each rock.

Not really, firing Kat at max range means it won't hit anything and compared to PzWerfer's wiping capability or Stuka's perfect accuracy or Callie/LM Kat is like firecrackers.

conscripts are meant to be shit because they were shit in reality

When people say cons are really weak and can't do anything then you preceded to absolutly slaughter everything with ppsh cons

Cons have (imo) the most utility in the game. Even more than riflemen.

They can
1 build sandbags
2 sprint
3 molotovs to clear buildings and cover
4 AT nades
5 merge
6 repair (doctrinal)
7 immunity to suppression (HTD doctrinal)
8 6 models per squad which makes recrewing weapons very easy
9 Upgraded with ppshs
10 spammed with soviet infantry recycle-o-matic (doctrinal)

While their DPS is similar to normal grens so they can't really compete with other axis elite infantry. Does this mean they need DPS buff? No, use penals for the AI. They are getting their well deserved buff.
Combined arms is promoted, blobbing is not. Use cons to their full utility and you'll see they are in a good spot

The general idea is that cons can do anything except fighting and against OH weak DPS is not a crippling issue due to their fragility, against OKW, cons is inferior to volks, volks scale better, do not need as much micro as cons and without doctrine more utility.

Cons have (imo) the most utility in the game. Even more than riflemen.

They can
1 build sandbags
2 sprint
3 molotovs to clear buildings and cover
4 AT nades
5 merge
6 repair (doctrinal)
7 immunity to suppression (HTD doctrinal)
8 6 models per squad which makes recrewing weapons very easy
9 Upgraded with ppshs
10 spammed with soviet infantry recycle-o-matic (doctrinal)

While their DPS is similar to normal grens so they can't really compete with other axis elite infantry. Does this mean they need DPS buff? No, use penals for the AI. They are getting their well deserved buff.
Combined arms is promoted, blobbing is not. Use cons to their full utility and you'll see they are in a good spot

The most utility? Yea great, let's go at your points:

1. Sanbags are not exclusive for Cons. Volks can build bags, Tommies can build bags and undoctrinal trenches. So, that's not their plus.

2. Sprint. Useful. Agree. Still, don't add real firepower to them, though.

3. Molotovs clear your Cons squads more often, than enemies. They should be too close to target and throw too slow - your squad sometimes can die right after they thrown grenade, or even before it! Compared with Volksnades Molotovs are really bad.

4. AT-nades are also not exclusive. There are also Panzerfausts. Grens are "utility" too after that? But at least they are combat-reliable.

5. Merge. Okay, I don't use it at all, maybe it's useful, I can't see anything really good in that ability and I never had situation, when that ability could make something better on battlefield. And people, whom I play against, also don't use it often. It reminds me flaremines - you can say "they have such a good sight ability". It's good only in theory - on practice, it's out of usage at all.

6. Repair. As you said - doctrinal. Doctrinal benefits are out of discussion. I anyway can use non-doc engineers for same purpouses in any moment.

7. Hit the Dirt is one of the most useless abilties in game. Seriously, mention it as "strength" of Cons... maybe you will also say, that "you know what? they can actually shoot! see, they are cool!". Don't be ridiculous, please.

8. Recrewing is good. What about direct combat abilites, which I mentioned in OP? 2 additional unaccurate and slow-shooting rifles doesn't make it better at all, specially with high target size stat.

9. Lol, and other infantry squads can be also equiped with additional weapons! But you know what? They don't need to take shitty doctrines for to get it! So yea, PPSHs are great, but not when I have to refuse from different REALLY useful doctrinal units/abilites for to have it.

10. Recycle-o-matic spam is also doctrinal, as you said. Putted in pretty bad doctrines mostly, again. That's not "strength" side of Cons at all.

And their DPS is horrible! Random low accuracy, incredibly low rate of fire! And they die really fast in combat, because target size allows to kill them pretty fast. So they really should get either survivability boost or firepower buff, like non-doc additional weapons or T3-T4 upgrade, which changes their useless Mosins to SVTs.

Using Penals as main combat infantry? Fine, then let grenade upgrades affect not only Cons, but also Penals. Otherwise - you just making USSR's game more difficult with no reason. Why should I use "combine arms" infantry units for to do same job, that Ostheer Grens can do alone - support with abilites and kill enemy infantry. And Riflemans are able to do it alone.

That idea of "cons-utility, penals-combat" doesn't improve USSR as faction, it gives them nothing more, than additional headache, additional needance of micro more squads and making Soviet gameplay is more horrible, than it is right now. And it is pretty poor right now, with obvious "doctrinal addiciton" and absence of any possbile deffensive gameplay. Don't cripple soviets more, than they are, please!

The most utility? Yea great, let's go at your points:

1. Sanbags are not exclusive for Cons. Volks can build bags, Tommies can build bags and undoctrinal trenches. So, that's not their plus.

2. Sprint. Useful. Agree. Still, don't add real firepower to them, though.

3. Molotovs clear your Cons squads more often, than enemies. They should be too close to target and throw too slow - your squad sometimes can die right after they thrown grenade, or even before it! Compared with Volksnades Molotovs are really bad.

4. AT-nades are also not exclusive. There are also Panzerfausts. Grens are "utility" too after that? But at least they are combat-reliable.

5. Merge. Okay, I don't use it at all, maybe it's useful, I can't see anything really good in that ability and I never had situation, when that ability could make something better on battlefield. And people, whom I play against, also don't use it often. It reminds me flaremines - you can say "they have such a good sight ability". It's good only in theory - on practice, it's out of usage at all.

6. Repair. As you said - doctrinal. Doctrinal benefits are out of discussion. I anyway can use non-doc engineers for same purpouses in any moment.

7. Hit the Dirt is one of the most useless abilties in game. Seriously, mention it as "strength" of Cons... maybe you will also say, that "you know what? they can actually shoot! see, they are cool!". Don't be ridiculous, please.

8. Recrewing is good. What about direct combat abilites, which I mentioned in OP? 2 additional unaccurate and slow-shooting rifles doesn't make it better at all, specially with high target size stat.

9. Lol, and other infantry squads can be also equiped with additional weapons! But you know what? They don't need to take shitty doctrines for to get it! So yea, PPSHs are great, but not when I have to refuse from different REALLY useful doctrinal units/abilites for to have it.

10. Recycle-o-matic spam is also doctrinal, as you said. Putted in pretty bad doctrines mostly, again. That's not "strength" side of Cons at all.

And their DPS is horrible! Random low accuracy, incredibly low rate of fire! And they die really fast in combat, because target size allows to kill them pretty fast. So they really should get either survivability boost or firepower buff, like non-doc additional weapons or T3-T4 upgrade, which changes their useless Mosins to SVTs.

Using Penals as main combat infantry? Fine, then let grenade upgrades affect not only Cons, but also Penals. Otherwise - you just making USSR's game more difficult with no reason. Why should I use "combine arms" infantry units for to do same job, that Ostheer Grens can do alone - support with abilites and kill enemy infantry. And Riflemans are able to do it alone.

That idea of "cons-utility, penals-combat" doesn't improve USSR as faction, it gives them nothing more, than additional headache, additional needance of micro more squads and making Soviet gameplay is more horrible, than it is right now. And it is pretty poor right now, with obvious "doctrinal addiciton" and absence of any possbile deffensive gameplay. Don't cripple soviets more, than they are, please!

You just wanna spam cons and call it a day don't you. Get penals or maxims if your having a hard time vs infantry.

Grens can't build sandbags. Grens can't sprint. Grens can't deny cover for only 15 munis. Grens can hardly recrew weapons despite ostheer being the most reliant on them. Grens can't merge into their flamer pios to keep them on the field longer. Its called asymmetric balance.

Cons don't get 1 shotted by explosives on a regular basis like grens. You have a hard time with survivability with cons? Play ostheer for a change.

You just wanna spam cons and call it a day don't you. Get penals or maxims if your having a hard time vs infantry.

Grens can't build sandbags. Grens can't sprint. Grens can't deny cover for only 15 munis. Grens can hardly recrew weapons despite ostheer being the most reliant on them. Grens can't merge into their flamer pios to keep them on the field longer. Its called asymmetric balance.

Cons don't get 1 shotted by explosives on a regular basis like grens. You have a hard time with survivability with cons? Play ostheer for a change.

I want to see soviet core infantry reliable not only for "utility purpouses, but first of all - for combat, like all other mainline infantry squads. Why not to make Cons combat reliable, and Penals - cheap utility infantry, not vice versa? Seems more reasonable in all ways.

Grens can't everything you said, but they can something, that is 10 times better - they can fight and deal real damage to your enemy. That's what you need from your main infantry, not being able to do shitty job, which should be done by engineers or other squads.

Cons don't get 1shoted by explosives, but dying way faster under fire, than any other infantry squad. So, their survivability is not that good. Combined with poor firepower and 0 scale of it we getting full disaster, instead of mainline infantry unit. And I play as Ostheer right now, only as Ostheer, only with LeFHs. Can say, that Grens are awesome, and combined with Arty Officier - deadly as Obers.

Btw, what do you think about making Cons "combat infantry" and Penals "utility", and cheaper? It makes sense in all ways - Cons are your main soldiers, Penals are trashsquads, which you can use for all those purpouses, like "building sandbags, recrewing guns, clearing minefields, whatever else".

I want to see soviet core infantry reliable not only for "utility purpouses, but first of all - for combat, like all other mainline infantry squads. Why not to make Cons combat reliable, and Penals - cheap utility infantry, not vice versa? Seems more reasonable in all ways.

Then play another faction like USF or Brits.

That's all that I think can be said by now, we're going in circles at this point. Almost everyone here has stated Conscripts are early game troops who turn to utility towards mid-late game who screen for other units in the Soviet army or if you want combat conscripts, lock in a doc.

Then play another faction like USF or Brits.

That's all that I think can be said by now, we're going in circles at this point. Almost everyone here has stated Conscripts are early game troops who turn to utility towards mid-late game who screen for other units in the Soviet army or if you want combat conscripts, lock in a doc.

And why other factions don't need to "lock in a doc" for to make their mainlines combat reliable? And what USSR gets as compensation of such loss of infantry power? Guess, nothing.

Look at USF from vCoH. They are really similar to USSR in many things. And USF Riflemans in vCoH are 100% copy of Conscripts: 6 men squad, survivable to explosives, but vunerable to direct fire, low firepower, has same grenades unlocks...

But, they also has one interesting upgrade, which could be absolutely useful for Cons in CoH 2 - 2 BaRs to each sqaud. Expensive upgrade, which could improve pretty poor combat stats of Riflemans in mid-late game and make them reliable at those stages... more or less. I don't understand, why is it such a big problem to use some ideas, which nicely worked in vCoH, in CoH 2 for to make it better? USSR could use a lot of things from USF, like "Sherman gun upgrade", or "fuel required HMG bunkers". Or even same "BaR upgrade" - make same upgrade, availavle in T0 after T3 or T4, which changes Mosins to SVT or gives them DP-28s. Just something, that would scale Cons for late game!

And making Penals as main combat infantry is very retarded idea. Only thing, that will force people to use Conscripts in that case is AT-grenade, because Penals and T1 in general has no AT at all. If you will make grenade-upgrades available also for Penals, then Cons will be gone at all. Cos what for I need to pay 240 MP (price of full-combat reliable Grens, lol) for squad, which loosing in every combat stat to Penals and will become useless after 5th-7th min of game?

And why other factions don't need to "lock in a doc" for to make their mainlines combat reliable? And what USSR gets as compensation of such loss of infantry power? Guess, nothing.

Look at USF from vCoH. They are really similar to USSR in many things. And USF Riflemans in vCoH are 100% copy of Conscripts: 6 men squad, survivable to explosives, but vunerable to direct fire, low firepower, has same grenades unlocks...

But, they also has one interesting upgrade, which could be absolutely useful for Cons in CoH 2 - 2 BaRs to each sqaud. Expensive upgrade, which could improve pretty poor combat stats of Riflemans in mid-late game and make them reliable at those stages... more or less. I don't understand, why is it such a big problem to use some ideas, which nicely worked in vCoH, in CoH 2 for to make it better? USSR could use a lot of things from USF, like "Sherman gun upgrade", or "fuel required HMG bunkers". Or even same "BaR upgrade" - make same upgrade, availavle in T0 after T3 or T4, which changes Mosins to SVT or gives them DP-28s. Just something, that would scale Cons for late game!

And making Penals as main combat infantry is very retarded idea. Only thing, that will force people to use Conscripts in that case is AT-grenade, because Penals and T1 in general has no AT at all. If you will make grenade-upgrades available also for Penals, then Cons will be gone at all. Cos what for I need to pay 240 MP (price of full-combat reliable Grens, lol) for squad, which loosing in every combat stat to Penals and will become useless after 5th-7th min of game?

You have a problem with the game. Instead of learning to adapt and understand he game, you're trying to change it to suit your own play style.

My suggestion --> try any of the other 4 factions and see if you like any of them more. Instead of making all the factions suit you're play style, find one that already is.

You have a problem with the game. Instead of learning to adapt and understand he game, you're trying to change it to suit your own play style.

My suggestion --> try any of the other 4 factions and see if you like any of them more. Instead of making all the factions suit you're play style, find one that already is.

+1
#Adapt