Calliope OP?

I'm playing on balance mod only since it was released, as that is not part of the ladder for obvious reasons, my ranks will be hidden

Damn u,tobi

I like the effort

I think you have several complains which are based on wrong facts.

IMO the unit is not OP but it has been balanced on the wrong direction. The problem is how the barrage works. It would had been better to spread out the rockets into 3 equal sets, rather than leaving the first barrage fire 10.

Off: that pic

This is the unit I personally feel needs rebalancing the most:

- Almost impossible to kill unlike other mobile arty like Stukas or katushas cause...well..its a TANK.
- Therefore heavily promotes defensive camping playstyle where u just bleed out your opponents manpower by constant barraging.
- Very low popcap for this unit makes it quite spammable.
- Does massive damage per rocket.
- Shoot a massive amount of rockets.
- Kills units/squads on retreat like flies. Defensive bonuses when on retreat seem almost completely negated. It's really not uncommon for me to lose 2 squads instantly to a barrage when I'm just a fraction of a second too late with my retreat, very much unlike other arty barrages in the game.

All in all in it's current form I personally find this unit to be nothing but OP cheese. It promotes a playstyle that I heavily dislike (campy, non mobile, non flanking).

A bit of a disclaimer here is that my experience mostly comes from a lot of 2v2's. Not really sure how this unit works out in 1v1, but in 2v2 I think it's as close to broken as they get personally.

From now on I propose a namechange for this unit to: CalliOP.

No, not really. As USF, you can't decrew the Calliope which really limits how many you can put on the field and still maintain map presence. They cost a lot of fuel so each one costs you slightly more than one Jackson.

It's mostly good when used like a Sturmtiger. They're not very good when used at long range, and best used when barraging from close range.

dont laugh us,pls! so u can dodge it? are u david cooperfield? atleast u lost some infantries even in long range . btw most dodgable unit is stuka(linear)

Sure it can't be dodged all the time but still quite a bit. I beat a then ranked 12 Allies AT team yesterday who used Calli's. Didn't dodge all but still a decent amount

Since OP seems to have forgotten to post his playercard (bit naughty after attacking Katitofs )

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/viewBoard/0/steamid/76561197972918936

Elchino basically nailed what the main issue with Calliope's performance is; the initial firing pattern is a lot like the Panzerwerfer (with stronger rockets than the Panzerwerfer iirc), which doesn't give the victim the time to react.

A more-annoying aspect of the Calliope (and Land Mattress) is that:

1) They are stronger/on-par with the best non-doc indirect fire unit in the game (Panzerwerfer)

2) USF and UKF normally have no access to adequate indirect fire support. This means that the core of USF/UKF is has buffed in other areas (strong USF infantry, strong UKF tanks) to make up for that shortcoming.

3) They belong to DLC doctrines

Couple #1 with #2, and you will see why those units are so frustrating to play against. Now, add #3, and the frustration only adds up (for the people that lack access to said units).

How would people react to an OST doctrine that:
- Gives Pgrens/Grens access to a 5th squad member
- Allows Grenadiers to upgrade a 2nd LMG
- Makes OST squads space-out more
- Gives access to Panzer3 (or Hotchkiss, if you are Tobis)

Basically, that's the same deal with USF/UKF and the respective doctrines.

meh, i stopped using that calliope doctrine when it got that double nerf. Now it costs too much for a lesser barrage and it's on cooldown forever. if your opponent squeezes out a calliope then he isn't getting tanks for a while. that means you can make a tank and be even more aggressive since that doctrine has no mines and is very defensively oriented.

Priest is way better if you ask me when comes to cost and performance.

- Gives access to Panzer3 (or Hotchkiss, if you are Tobis)

For another comparison you have the puma already, which is the most popular Ost doctrine in 1v1.

stuff

1) They are stronger/on-par with the best non-doc indirect fire unit in the game (Panzerwerfer)

more stuff

It really is a tragedy and a travesty when a docrinal Allied unit is as good as a non-doc Axis unit. Axis units should always be better. That's how they won the war.

UKF normally have no access to adequate indirect fire support.

Mortar Pit, one of the best (if it's not the best) non-doctrinal indirect fire support "unit"

meh, i stopped using that calliope doctrine when it got that double nerf. Now it costs too much for a lesser barrage and it's on cooldown forever. if your opponent squeezes out a calliope then he isn't getting tanks for a while. that means you can make a tank and be even more aggressive since that doctrine has no mines and is very defensively oriented.

Priest is way better if you ask me when comes to cost and performance.

+1, I took it out of my 2v2 loadout in favor of Infantry. The other abilities in Tactical Support aren't that great. The strafing run is pretty lackluster, the recon run is almost the same as the Major's recon, and the muni's on the call-in HT are way too much for such a fragile vehicle.

+1, I took it out of my 2v2 loadout in favor of Infantry. The other abilities in Tactical Support aren't that great. The strafing run is pretty lackluster, the recon run is almost the same as the Major's recon, and the muni's on the call-in HT are way too much for such a fragile vehicle.

The other great part about the priest is how you can decrew. In some super late 2v2s where usf floats hard i'll give one to my sov player who needs arty but can't afford t4 or my brit partner who doesn't have an indirect fire commander.

The other great part about the priest is how you can decrew. In some super late 2v2s where usf floats hard i'll give one to my sov player who needs arty but can't afford t4 or my brit partner who doesn't have an indirect fire commander.

If you want to see something funny, download one of TheWalt's replays where he spams Priests - or check this out:

http://i.imgur.com/3pqoeth.jpg

If a shrek blob gets to them or a pair of p4's/p5's then it isn't so funny but otherwise........

LeL, it's stronk but not OP

If you want to see something funny, download one of TheWalt's replays where he spams Priests - or check this out:

http://i.imgur.com/3pqoeth.jpg

If a shrek blob gets to them or a pair of p4's/p5's then it isn't so funny but otherwise........

LOL. i'm willing to risk my rank for a go at that silliness. what if i give the crewmen zooks? no more p4 problem lol.

For another comparison you have the puma already, which is the most popular Ost doctrine in 1v1.

But even the Puma doesn't cover every single disadvantage of Ostheer early-game.

It really is a tragedy and a travesty when a docrinal Allied unit is as good as a non-doc Axis unit. Axis units should always be better. That's how they won the war.

My point is that the choice is completely bipolar:
1) If you don't pick the doctrine, your indirect fire options are shit (i.e., on par with UKF).
2) If you pick the doctrine, you are the god of indirect fire.

Now there are two cases:
- The faction has been designed to perform well without indirect fire. This means that they should become insanely strong when they ALSO get access to Calliope (and LMGs, and tier-free AAHT). Calliope is P2W.
- The faction was shit to begin with, and absolutely needs the Calliope to perform in the late game. In this case, the Calliope doctrine is a pay-not-to-lose doctrine.

Regardless of what situation the USF was in pre-Calliope, wouldn't it be better for the game if Calliope was weaker and (if necessary) USF core became stronger/more versatile?

But even the Puma doesn't cover every single disadvantage of Ostheer early-game.



My point is that the choice is completely bipolar:
1) If you don't pick the doctrine, your indirect fire options are shit (i.e., on par with UKF).
2) If you pick the doctrine, you are the god of indirect fire.

Now there are two cases:
- The faction has been designed to perform well without indirect fire. This means that they should become insanely strong when they ALSO get access to Calliope (and LMGs, and tier-free AAHT). Calliope is P2W.
- The faction was shit to begin with, and absolutely needs the Calliope to perform in the late game. In this case, the Calliope doctrine is a pay-not-to-lose doctrine.

Regardless of what situation the USF was in pre-Calliope, wouldn't it be better for the game if Calliope was weaker and (if necessary) USF core became stronger/more versatile?

yes please, I wouldn't mind a nerf to Callie if USF indirect isn't so sucky anymore.

I think you have several complains which are based on wrong facts.

IMO the unit is not OP but it has been balanced on the wrong direction. The problem is how the barrage works. It would had been better to spread out the rockets into 3 equal sets, rather than leaving the first barrage fire 10.

Off: that pic

best answer.

Sure it can't be dodged all the time but still quite a bit. I beat a then ranked 12 Allies AT team yesterday who used Calli's. Didn't dodge all but still a decent amount

Since OP seems to have forgotten to post his playercard (bit naughty after attacking Katitofs )

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/viewBoard/0/steamid/76561197972918936

The reason I feel my playercard is not relevant is that it derails the discussion about a unit into a discussion about whether my e-penis/rank is big enough to be "allowed" to discuss a certain unit.

I DID choose to attack Katitofs playercard because this playercard shows the guy is basically a nutter: he spends more time on forums theorycrafting than actually playing the game he is talking about, meaning his opinion is absolutely moot in the discussion.

On a sidenote I have to say the level of debate I see on this board is heavily disappointing to me, to childish levels actually. I thought we all wanted balance in the game we love here, but it seems there are so many people that are mostly just involved with their e-penis and prefer to keep their favorite army as strong as possible, balance be damned.

Back to the Calliope now:

In my opinion losing 2 squads right off the bat to a barrage is not balance: it's frustrating, cheap and it feels like you're being robbed. Army preservation is what separates the good players from the best, and killing squads is something that you have to work for in this game. Except for with this unit, where you just click on barrage and voila: bobs your uncle. The Calliope simply wipes squads way too easily.

It's cheap and needs to be fixed.