OKW (balance preview mode) - concerns and solutions

Can you do the same thing to an AEC/Stuart? No, and they are much better AI-Wise.

Can you do the same thing to an AEC/Stuart? No, and they are much better AI-Wise.

Which is probably because their main guns have 10 less range and worse penetration.

They have entirely different roles and Pumas being pretty much literally as low armour as it can before being immune to small arms doesn't prevent it from performing its role.

Still being immune to any kind of small stuff is a much more valuable advantage.


Also the puma is extremely inaccurate at long range.

It's still going to hit any Stuart or AEC with the majority of its shots and it's still going to piss off medium tanks with micro and kite anything with AT that's not a TD or ATG. while Stuarts and AECs will be praying there's nothing with AT around while they show their faces once mediums hit.

Any issues with the Puma are outside of the unit itself, like giving up healing to get it. The unit is fine.

Such a relatively expensive vehicle, which is supposed to be a light AT taking damage from cons is far from fine.


Valid point on the decision making consequences.

Such a relatively expensive vehicle, which is supposed to be a light AT taking damage from cons is far from fine.


Valid point on the decision making consequences.

Well I mean, sure they could raise the Puma's armour to 35 to ensure it's literally immune to rifle fire and so it'll survive running onto a mine next to a shotblocker's corner after which 8 Infantry Sections then arrive to shoot at it which is a situation I'm sure has happened like 3 times in the history of all matches in the game. It won't really change how I play with it.

what

Did they change Puma recently? Last time I checked it was able to fight of medium vehicles with ease turning in to a monster after few vet levels.

I played a few balance mod games and I agree that OKW is just weaker than before. 2 STG's on volks? Are you kidding me? It's hardly even an upgrade, and it costs 60muni. You would be better off placing two mines. And adding a single shreck to sturms turns them from a decent AI squad to a borderline incompetent, expensive ai squad with poor at ability. As soon as 1 model gets dropped, you're down to 50% DPS of a regular sturm squad and anyone that knows anything will tell you that even in close range 2 sturms lose to any mainline allied infantry. A single shreck is not going to do anything, in order to have any chance at wiping a light vehicle you need at minimum 2. Oh I should build a racketen? Right, now I've invested about 600mp into two squads that have virtually no anti-infantry capability in the first few minutes of the game. Doesn't get much easier for rifles.

I'd suggest adding a second shreck to sturms like Pgrens have for 120 muni, and rethink this 2 stg upgrade. Maybe give them all stg, or an mg or G43s or something. As it is I don't think I'll ever get the stg upgrade on volks, seeing as how they have bad received accuracy without a lot of vet so charging the enemy is basically suicide it makes no sense to trade a squad that is strong/average/below average in cover relative to their cost and a couple of mines for a squad that is weak/average/above average. (far/medium/close)

I played a few balance mod games and I agree that OKW is just weaker than before. 2 STG's on volks? Are you kidding me? It's hardly even an upgrade, and it costs 60muni. You would be better off placing two mines. And adding a single shreck to sturms turns them from a decent AI squad to a borderline incompetent, expensive ai squad with poor at ability. As soon as 1 model gets dropped, you're down to 50% DPS of a regular sturm squad and anyone that knows anything will tell you that even in close range 2 sturms lose to any mainline allied infantry. A single shreck is not going to do anything, in order to have any chance at wiping a light vehicle you need at minimum 2. Oh I should build a racketen? Right, now I've invested about 600mp into two squads that have virtually no anti-infantry capability in the first few minutes of the game. Doesn't get much easier for rifles.

I'd suggest adding a second shreck to sturms like Pgrens have for 120 muni, and rethink this 2 stg upgrade. Maybe give them all stg, or an mg or G43s or something. As it is I don't think I'll ever get the stg upgrade on volks, seeing as how they have bad received accuracy without a lot of vet so charging the enemy is basically suicide it makes no sense to trade a squad that is strong/average/below average in cover relative to their cost and a couple of mines for a squad that is weak/average/above average. (far/medium/close)

My thoughts exactly. That's basically what i have described in my initial post.

My thoughts exactly. That's basically what i have described in my initial post.

Yeah pretty much, I just wanted to mention a few things in a specific way that I thought would add to it as well as weigh in on the matter myself. Hope they do something about this. (they probably won't)

Edit: another possibility would be give sturms shrecks that they can unequip like their sweeper. Just make them choose one or the other (the sweeper+repair speed is really important for okw), and given them an icon so that he opponent knows they have them. I haven't seen it before but I'm sure people have already suggested it somewhere.

the volks with the stg44 is fine. they are a bit weaker than single bar rifleman and price as such.

and the okw should be building their own vehicle instead of relying on schreck spam and raketen. They already have two of the best light vehicle in the game.

Did they change Puma recently? Last time I checked it was able to fight of medium vehicles with ease turning in to a monster after few vet levels.

You never checked correctly because it never was capable of fighting medium tanks. it was only capable of flanking a medium tank.

the volks with the stg44 is fine. they are a bit weaker than single bar rifleman and price as such.

and the okw should be building their own vehicle instead of relying on schreck spam and raketen. They already have two of the best light vehicle in the game.

That is a massive balance problem right their. If they are not capable of holding their own against rifles/is/penals you have units that are death weight mid game. best solution is to improve their veterancy (which at the moment is just very weak compared to to the other mainline infantry) and increase the volks mp44's to 3 with a 90 ammo cost.

Also the OKW vehicles are just shit. the puma ? overpriced piece of shit compared to the aec or m10.
and dont even get em started on the okw flaktrack that is not capable of moving has less damage then the usf track and cost slightly more. And you know that just as well as i do.

That is a massive balance problem right their. If they are not capable of holding their own against rifles/is/penals you have units that are death weight mid game. best solution is to

build Obers mid/late game.

Also the OKW vehicles are just shit. the puma ? overpriced piece of shit compared to the aec or m10.
and dont even get em started on the okw flaktrack that is not capable of moving has less damage then the usf track and cost slightly more. And you know that just as well as i do.

Just learn to micro and you'll see their real potential.

That is a massive balance problem right their. If they are not capable of holding their own against rifles/is/penals you have units that are death weight mid game. best solution is to improve their veterancy (which at the moment is just very weak compared to to the other mainline infantry) and increase the volks mp44's to 3 with a 90 ammo cost.

Also the OKW vehicles are just shit. the puma ? overpriced piece of shit compared to the aec or m10.
and dont even get em started on the okw flaktrack that is not capable of moving has less damage then the usf track and cost slightly more. And you know that just as well as i do.

the penal and rifle are both more expensive and cost more population than the volks. Those two allied troops should be superior.

and the m10 is only superior in vanilla due to crush. Without that crush ability the puma is actually better against infantry than the m10.

build Obers mid/late game.


Just learn to micro and you'll see their real potential.

1. so what am i going to do with 3/4 useless squads?

2. nothing to do with micro. the m10 nearly has twice the penetration and the aec does the same thing but much cheaper.

The puma is without a doubt the most cost ineffective unit in the game but you dont play okw so you do not know anyway.

the penal and rifle are both more expensive and cost more population than the volks. Those two allied troops should be superior.

and the m10 is only superior in vanilla due to crush. Without that crush ability the puma is actually better against infantry than the m10.

1. looking only at cost its not a good way to balance things. technically the okw has significantly inferior support units and relies on stronger front-line units. now the okw has weaker frontline and support units. no snipers and a shitty mg and leigh. As such vg's need to be as strong as rifles or even stronger.

2. i do not use the puma or m10 as AI anyway.

1. so what am i going to do with 3/4 useless squads?

2. nothing to do with micro. the m10 nearly has twice the penetration and the aec does the same thing but much cheaper.

The puma is without a doubt the most cost ineffective unit in the game but you dont play okw so you do not know anyway.

Meatshield.

M10 comes much later, linked to a doctrine and is actually a tank destroyer. Puma is an light tank destroyer. Can't you see the difference? You are really hopeless in your way...

Meatshield.

M10 comes much later, linked to a doctrine and is actually a tank destroyer. Puma is an light tank destroyer. Can't you see the difference? You are really hopeless in your way...

yeah it is a light tank destroyer.
And that makes the puma way to expensive for what it is doing.
but maths and logic is not your strong point.

Having decent micro still doesnt make this unit good . its just makes them acceptable