Ostheer feels really really weak (POLL)

Hello

Ostheer feels really weak in its current form in 1v1. From the low squad sizes prone to getting wiped, to having no effective light vehicle counterparts to the Stuart, t70 and AEC, to having inferior and expensive teching that shows no real benefit from going to t4. It just feels off.

Your core infantry can't go toe to toe with any other core infantry units but conscripts. Your medium tank is more expensive than its counterparts and can't 1v1 them effectively. Your teching isn't rewarding as your counterpart's teching is. Other factions either get free units out of their teching or free abilities such as howitzer emplacements, but you get nothing of these kinds (a problem for soviets as well..) There is no real reason to go tier 4 in a 1v1 since you waste so much resources that could be better spend on tier 3 units.

Ostheer play feels as being reactive 90% of all games becasue the faction's design dictates that you play reactively. This was fine vs Soviets, but now with the USF and Brits factions this just doesn't cut it any more.

I know high ranked players are doing just fine, but I higly doubt that the majority of players outside of top 50 don't feel the same way as I and many of my friends do.

I do agree that ostheer feel a little weak, but there are too many poll options. Reduce it to maybe 4 options please. For example the "yes they feel weak" ; "no they are fine" could be removed.

A lot of people consider Ostheer to be the most balanced faction in the game, but in many cases thats actually a bad thing. Currently they get overshadowed by strong factions and while Ostheer seems kinda prevalent throughout the game, they are never the strongest at any given point of the match, then they have options but even then they are mostly specialized and easily counterable by USF and Brits. The best fix for Ostheer would either be adding more health to the current 4 man squad or adding another member but adding another member means that Relic would have to rebalance the entire squad.

Please keep shits like this in the gameplay or balance forums. The strategy office is for asking for advice, not whining. Ask for specific things you are having trouble with.

If you are having trouble dealing with Riflemen and ISs you need to be playing more defensively. If you are overextended rifles and ISs will eat you alive, and they should, they are more expensive. Stay back, hold your fuel and muni point, and wait until there is a good time to push out. You need to make sure you are prepared for the inevitable vehicle coming.

"Shits like this" lol.... well

moved to coh2 balance, where it shall see more votes and proper discussion.

I Second the notion that the state office is for asking for help. Not for filthy, nasty, BALANCE POLLS!

!!!

Please keep shits like this in the gameplay or balance forums. The strategy office is for asking for advice, not whining. Ask for specific things you are having trouble with.

If you are having trouble dealing with Riflemen and ISs you need to be playing more defensively. If you are overextended rifles and ISs will eat you alive, and they should, they are more expensive. Stay back, hold your fuel and muni point, and wait until there is a good time to push out. You need to make sure you are prepared for the inevitable vehicle coming.

That is the piont, you always need to do that. There is no diversion from that play. You are always REACTING

"Shits like this" lol.... well

moved to coh2 balance, where it shall see more votes and proper discussion.

I Second the notion that the state office is for asking for help. Not for filthy, nasty, BALANCE POLLS!

!!!

Alright sorry

I said it multiple times already and Imperial Dane even made a video about it. The Ostheer T4 and especially the Panther are worse than going T3 and staying there. A lot of Panzer IVs and StuGs do the job way better and way earlier than Panthers etc.

There is no incentive to go T4. This is not going to be fixed by cheaper T4 because the Panther still remains bad with lack of AI and a bad rate of fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cF8Vts6YakI#t=5m40s

I pretty much think he hits it spot on here. It gets outshined by the Comet which has similar armor, better rate of fire, better AI and is easier accessible. Guess why Ostheer struggles versus Brits so much. One reason is the weak Panther.

"How does it feeel, to treat me like you do..."

Fix the Panzer IV, reduce the panther reload time and OST will be fine.

I said it multiple times already and Imperial Dane even made a video about it. The Ostheer T4 and especially the Panther are worse than going T3 and staying there. A lot of Panzer IVs and StuGs do the job way better and way earlier than Panthers etc.

There is no incentive to go T4. This is not going to be fixed by cheaper T4 because the Panther still remains bad with lack of AI and a bad rate of fire.

Well the way you put it makes OST T3 look OP

That is the piont, you always need to do that. There is no diversion from that play. You are always REACTING

That's what is genearally called a playstyle of a faction and has nothing to do with ballance. Every faction may feel weak if you try to play it too much differently from its design. Remember, that if you want to switch to different playstyle for a while you often need to change a faction as well. That is exactly why we have 5 different factions instead of reskinned copy-pastes.

I've not tried the balance patch much. Does the grenade range nerf not make ostheers life slightly easier vs USF? If anything were done to ostheer I think it should be very subtle or instead small changes to the other factions instead like tiny tweaks to double lmg units or Brit tank pricing

Fix the Panzer IV, reduce the panther reload time and OST will be fine.

Well the way you put it makes OST T3 look OP

*And T3 is only good versus USF and Soviets.

That's what is genearally called a playstyle of a faction and has nothing to do with ballance. Every faction may feel weak if you try to play it too much differently from its design. Remember, that if you want to switch to different playstyle for a while you often need to change a faction as well. That is exactly why we have 5 different factions instead of reskinned copy-pastes.

That is okay. That Ostheer doesn´t get a reward for not having the initiative for the whole early and mid game is what´s wrong. They were designed to hold out until the lategame to come back. Now they are passive and outmatched lategame.

They were designed to fight vs. Soviets,not USF and OPKF

Poll lacks of one more option.

Ostheer faction is not weak, nor strong, pretty balanced but requires much more micro than any other faction to get what's best of them.

*And T3 is only good versus USF and Soviets.

That is okay. That Ostheer doesn´t get a reward for not having the initiative for the whole early and mid game is what´s wrong. They were designed to hold out until the lategame to come back. Now they are passive and outmatched lategame.

The problem here is that they released another late game faction, the british. Ostheer is still ballanced in the way you describe against soviets and usf. Too many changes would break this. Against brits though (that ofc, need some nerfs) wehr needs to change strategy a bit becouse in fact brits are better at late and weaker in the early game due to how powerfull and early ostheer snipers and 222 are.

Poll lacks of one more option.

Ostheer faction is not weak, nor strong, pretty balanced but requires much more micro than any other faction to get what's best of them.

"No, they feel just fine."

"No, they feel just fine."

But they don't becasue they require much bigger input.

In other words, if 2 players/teams have equal skills, OST player will probably lose becasue it's harder to operate them when compare to all other factions.

A lot of people consider Ostheer to be the most balanced faction in the game,

This.

Ost (IMO) is the most well desgiend faction in the game; it's not blob focused (yes, you CAN blob), it's designed around combined arms, the use of support weapons to cover your attack forces... it's just a really well made team - what I would call the "idea" design.

Against Sov, this made a lot of sense, and it actually works well (it's fun to play against them). The problem is WFA and then UKF completely contradict this design. Vs. Sov, you expect to fight a lot of low-power but inexpensive units OR high-power expensive units in small numbers. USF added medium/high power inexpensive units to the game along with the pak-howie, which counters most of Ost's support weapon play.

Then UKF came along and messed it up even more.

If anything, the other factions need to be balanced around OST.

*And T3 is only good versus USF and Soviets.

That is okay. That Ostheer doesn´t get a reward for not having the initiative for the whole early and mid game is what´s wrong. They were designed to hold out until the lategame to come back. Now they are passive and outmatched lategame.

Assault Gren, Osstruppen, Sniper, 222, FHT, Stug-E.