Imperial Japanese Army proposed faction

A lack of naval support wouldnt rlly be a big deal with the IJA having engaged mostly on land battles, and there were tons of land battles on the Pacific, maybe more than naval battles actually.

Land battles that included naval support, a feature that's not very realistic in CoH2 battles. Air strikes however are a different issue, you just make the descriptions vague so it's not clear if it's IJA or IJN based aircraft doing the attacks.

About Japanese units not being able to compete against the British or Germans in an open field battle in Coh2 I dont agree at all, this is kinda the point and what Im trying to show in this thread actually. Take a look at the Ho-Ni II TD I included for example or the Type 4 Ho-Ro, these could technically take out a Tiger I or even a KT, so these two could easily be a late game IJA vehicle, and I left out a few other possible late game vehicles.

Also considering that there are already some in game units such as the Soviet Zis gun, bazookas, among other that can take out a KT or a Jagdtiger from the front, adding some other units which actually had better pennetration value such as the Ho-Ni II (120mm pen) or the Type 41 field gun (around 100mm pen), I dont think it would look anymore unrealistic on that aspect, also its not like Coh2 is an example of realism either. Aneways so these two IJA TDs for example could easily be around the same tier of the Jackson or the Su-85 regarding penetration values.

I would put it in the perspective of the following:
Japanese anti tank weapons would be as realistic as ZiS and bazookas penetrating King Tigers fron the front: both are unrealistic to the point of ridiculous.
Of course the problem with that argument is that it just reinforces the sheer unrealism of the game and how a Japanese faction has to be equally ludicrous in order to be feasible in said unrealistic game. I still don't buy that, because it's a mentality that accepts increasing implausibilities just to accommodate an almost implausible scenario. I rather they just make a CoH3 featuring IJA, hell it'll make more money for them, AND be less of a headache to balance and tweak.

ALso to add, you're not just trying to design units to perform against other units they've never fought agains, but also design a faction that would, presumably, have a distinct style of gameplay. Of course that's not withstanding the idea of IJA Rifleblobs blazing though Churchills by equipping 81mm RRs. Come now, we all know that's the first thing we'll do once we unlock that upgrade at T4!

Of course the problem with that argument is that it just reinforces the sheer unrealism of the game and how a Japanese faction has to be equally ludicrous in order to be feasible in said unrealistic game. I still don't buy that, because it's a mentality that accepts increasing implausibilities just to accommodate an almost implausible scenario.

He got it.

You can't use the argument of " Something is unrealistic, so there is no problem if we put other unrealistic things. "

The fact is, yes, it's a problem. At the moment in CoH, some units have unrealistic values for the sake of balance, but here we talk about a whole faction, not a bunch of units.

How can you imagine IJA winning a front against IS-2s and KV-2s ? You need to overvalue all of their units to do that, that's not correct in my opinion.

so at least it seems that the game already has some basics in camo and ambushes.

I agree with you, but the problem that i want to underline is that the ambushes features in CoH2 are extremly basics. We talk about IJA, who mostly fought in Jungles and Mountains, where it's easy to defend, or to ambush/place traps. And where it's difficult to maneuver with vehicles like tanks and light armoured support vehicle. It's mostly an infantry battle than a real battlefield.

In CoH2, you don't have those cons. You have tanks everywhere, AA SPG, artillery etc.

So in my opinion, the only way to design a competitive Japanese faction in CoH2 is just boosting their units to allow them to compete with the other ones because their tactics in the war can't be added in the game. ( It would require a complete rework of the gameplay, Relic has other things to do i guess )
For me it's not interesting. I'd rather wait for a next CoH with a complete gameplay dedicated to ambushes and jungle skirmishes, where the Japanese Army will really can show what she was capable off 70 years ago. Not just put her in a situation she almost never saw so that would never reflect the real potential of the Faction.

And on top of that, i can't see Japanese soldiers on the Smolensk's ground, that would hurt my heart

More factions is good, can't see why not. As an Eastern Front nerd the immersion was blown the second USF could join Soviets (not that that was a bad decision)

Is there a fear the Japanese won't have cool super-heavies and will have to rely on something else for a change?

Ridiculous japanese tanks in CoH 2 ? NO

I think at this point it is established that if there is a CoH3, it will be Japanese combat. It's something that can't really work with the CoH2 system due to the presence of close quarters, jamming weapons, and a more advanced cover and ambush system. All the maps would also have to be completely differently designed to fit the tactics.

Land battles that included naval support, a feature that's not very realistic in CoH2 battles. Air strikes however are a different issue, you just make the descriptions vague so it's not clear if it's IJA or IJN based aircraft doing the attacks.

I would put it in the perspective of the following:
Japanese anti tank weapons would be as realistic as ZiS and bazookas penetrating King Tigers fron the front: both are unrealistic to the point of ridiculous.
Of course the problem with that argument is that it just reinforces the sheer unrealism of the game and how a Japanese faction has to be equally ludicrous in order to be feasible in said unrealistic game. I still don't buy that, because it's a mentality that accepts increasing implausibilities just to accommodate an almost implausible scenario. I rather they just make a CoH3 featuring IJA, hell it'll make more money for them, AND be less of a headache to balance and tweak.

ALso to add, you're not just trying to design units to perform against other units they've never fought agains, but also design a faction that would, presumably, have a distinct style of gameplay. Of course that's not withstanding the idea of IJA Rifleblobs blazing though Churchills by equipping 81mm RRs. Come now, we all know that's the first thing we'll do once we unlock that upgrade at T4!

Yeah I dont think a lack of naval support would be a big deal, they have standard artillery support or air support which they often had a lot.

I agree that it would take a lot of balancing to make another faction, considering how much relic has suffered with OKW. However as I just mentioned, some of the Japanese units being able to pennetrate heavier tanks wouldnt be unrealistic at all, thats my point. Unlike the zis gun or bazookas pennetrating a Tiger or KT, some of the units I showed had a much higher pennetration value similar to those of the Jackson and the Su-85, so at least it wouldnt be anymore unrealistic than the Jackson penning a KT honestly. Also in an arcade rts game like this why would it matter if units that never fought each other have an engangement? That already happens in game annyways (churchill vs Jackson, Comet vs T-34, KT vs KT etc.).

Idk but personally if I were to reach the Tier 4 building Id certainly go for the Ho-Ni II, it could deal against late armour and be an artillery at the same time, would be kinda cool if u ask me. Id also get a couple of Chi-Has with the 57mm gun to deal against infantry blobs or just make a few Shinhotos to outnumber and flank, at least thats kinda my playstyle with the USF.

About the 81mm recoilless rifles probably everyone would get them as an easy way lol, however I included them to give more diversity against armoured units although they perform kinda worse than the panzerschreck on pennetration at least. But since not many of these were made then it might be alright to just allow infantry units to pick up one at a time only, or just make it a doctrinal weapon.

I think that the COH 3 come out in a few years so quickly not live I would like Japanese faction was the last and the chances would have been aligned in battle, and perhaps will be a Japanese faction similar to the British faction

I don't want any patches only balance the next fraction of Japanese army near future

Updated the tech tree and corrected many errors.

Still hoping for a Far East campaign maybe in CoH3, an Africa/ Italy campaign or an early war scenario with the French included would at least give a fresh air to the franchise.

Sorry if this seems like a necro.

This got me thinking-
Japan's weakness, and I think the main reason people are opposed to them being added, is their lack of tanks. Tanks provide a few things for the cost of fuel- immunity to suppression and small arms fire, munitions-free explosive damage, and maybe most importantly, can take damage without bleeding manpower.

I think Japan could be given those benefits in a different way. A "Fanaticism" bonus could be bought for mainline infantry, maybe 4 fuel per model. This would make them immune to suppression, harder to hit, and free to reinforce. You have to spend the fuel again for replacements, though. The squad's received suppression would be the same fraction as men with the upgrade. This would only be available around the same time other factions are getting their heavy tanks.

yes please

When you think its a necro, but the OP necroed it 2 years later to change things and mention it for CoH3. Well done.

japan for COH 3 pls... i cant wait to have a battle of khalkin gol and use muh BT-7 to crush samurai swords...

and likewise have yamato naval bombardments that crushes allied concentrations alive...

This got me thinking-
Japan's weakness, and I think the main reason people are opposed to them being added, is their lack of tanks. Tanks provide a few things for the cost of fuel- immunity to suppression and small arms fire, munitions-free explosive damage, and maybe most importantly, can take damage without bleeding manpower.

I think Japan could be given those benefits in a different way. A "Fanaticism" bonus could be bought for mainline infantry, maybe 4 fuel per model. This would make them immune to suppression, harder to hit, and free to reinforce. You have to spend the fuel again for replacements, though. The squad's received suppression would be the same fraction as men with the upgrade. This would only be available around the same time other factions are getting their heavy tanks.

Thats seems like a good idea, give a couple more fighting abilities to some infantry such as charging or a slightly better performance while in cover or when holding a possition, these would have a temporary effect and cost ammo or else it could be too OP. Maybe also expand the AT capabilities of other infantry units, such as being able to disable vehicle engines by throwing a satchel charge or something.

I imagine Japanese infantry could be organized and would fight in an assymetrical way against both enemy infantry and vehicles with their different abilities and light AT weapons, similar to how the Soviet AT-Infantry tactics commander works in CoH2.

Japanese tanks arent very protected, thats why they would have a more supportive role with their infantry or with other vehicles, rather than just charging forward alone like a panther would do.

When you think its a necro, but the OP necroed it 2 years later to change things and mention it for CoH3. Well done.

Well I mean, just wanted to fix many errors for anyone that might be interested in the idea, better than starting a similar topic on the same subject, Im saving internet trees.