SU-85; The Thread

The T34 has nothing to do with the balance of the SU-85 as the buildings cost too much to get both out and still build from them effectively. Soviet T3 and T4 both need to be viable on their own which is why this is such a touchy issue. If tier 4 can't effectively repel the inevitable armor then the building quickly becomes useless.

Personally I would love for SU-76 to be used more for a general purpose role and have the SU-85 be a more "heavier" expensive counter to armor.

Good points, but I disagree that "both t3 and t4" cost too much. It will still be a choice between the two so that doesnt change anything. I didnt say nerf it to shit so t4 is no longer an option. Remember German T3 and T4 are also expensive, and you have to tech linearly. So a player that wants to go su-85 will still be able to, he might just have to hang on a little longer before getting it(if cost is adjusted) or if reverse is slightly decreased(cost left as is) then he will have it out the same time as now.

SU-85 will still be able to repel german armor, it will just require slightly more babysitting of your su85 than currently where you just reverse into oblivion. I still dont understand why it was even programmed to reverse that fast.

The only reason I mentioned T34 is because russians whine that su-85 is the only viable AT-tank. T3 and T4 can still be viable in their own right if my suggested tweaks are made.

@ darkerdayzud: I agree the stug is kindof not worth it to build atm, specially cos p4 is just a little more fuel. It should get cone visibility imo.

SU-85 will still be able to repel german armor, it will just require slightly more babysitting of your su85 than currently where you just reverse into oblivion. I still dont understand why it was even programmed to reverse that fast.

tbh, the SU-85 drivers are drunk on too much vodka and have already lost a couple of higher brain functions. The driving AI is so. retarded. that every move order feels like boxing with the SU-85.

But when they manage to comprehend a reverse oder as exactly that, instead of driving around the scenery, playing carousel and/or driving straight into the middle of fucking Berlin, they do reverse damn fast. It's a little wonder every time, putting a smile on my face.

The SU85 drivers arent any more retarded when given proper shift qued reverse commands than are the pursuing Ost drivers who cant/can barely keep up with it while taking frontal hits from its powerful gun.

Irrelevant.

The SU85 drivers arent any more retarded when given proper shift qued reverse commands than are the pursuing Ost drivers who cant/can barely keep up with it while taking frontal hits from its powerful gun.

Irrelevant.

You're on a roll today, aren't you. Bad day at work?

Tired of irrelevancy, false facts, bias and overt diregard for objectivity.

My day is fine. Again, another completely irrelevant implication.

Tired of irrelevancy, false facts, bias and overt diregard for objectivity.

You're currently viewing an internet bulletin board about a computer real time strategy game. Honestly, what are you expecting?

Expecting intelligence, objectivity and respect for constructive discussion, as is normal throughout human interaction that isnt retarded.

It works with most people, but SOME seem to be incapable.

SU-85 is still flat out broken, the end all AT unit for both factions should not be a non-doctrinal unit.

The problem is the SU-85 is the only viable unit that can stand toe-to-toe with the German heavier tanks. The SU-76 just isn't good enough in that role. I wish it could be used a bit more as a soft counter to armor and not just as mobile artillery. If the SU-85 gets trimmed down to size, what are the Soviets suppose to do about Panthers? It's not like Soviet players have the option to grab Recoiless Rifle airborne and AT guns with AP rounds. There's just not much in the way of options for decent late game Soviet AT. It's no wonder Su-85s get spammed.

You're currently viewing an internet bulletin board about a computer real time strategy game.

The most demoralizing statement I've ever read

It'll be interesting to see what relic does with the su85, if they do anything to it. Currently the su85 is the only offensive soviet at solution that's cost effective against the German armor, with out it all games would end as soon as a p4 hit the field (12 minute mark?). Either way a p4 should never win against an su85 when assaulting one head on just like a t34 doesn't win against a p4.

The SU-85 is too cheap. I still don't understand why a tank that outperforms every other tank in the non doctrinal game, is only 116 fuel. It should be something like 125 fuel. Its especially aggravating when you consider the Soviets can field it relatively quickly.

The stats are fine, yes its a little too fast for my tatse, but then again, their tanks don't have turrets.

Comapring StuG's to SU-85's is a mistake. The only thing they have in common is th elack of a turret, but other than that, they should fill two different roles entirely.

And what role does the stug currently fit?

Its simply too fast.

That Su85... no comment. It fucks me up so hard when playing Ostheer, every freaking time! I gonna have a break until a patch arrives, can't see it anymore.

I just had a game where SU85 countered my PAKs... several times!! It destroyed the whole gun. In one situation there were 2 SU85s vs 2 PAK 40s at max range. Result: 1 SU85 destroyed and 2 PAks completely destroyed.

The major thing about the SU85 being so powerful, despite all the legid arguments that the SU85 is so extremely fast, way too cheap etc, is that it basicly NEVER misses because of its narrow scatter. It's so narrow that it even destroys PAKs at max range, whereas the PAK misses quite alot at max range cause it has a "normal" scatter.

You don't believe me?
Here are some scatter values for comparing.

Elefant:

"angle_scatter": 7.5,
"distance_scatter_max": 10,

STUG:

"angle_scatter": 7.5,
"distance_scatter_max": 6.5,

PAK 40:

"angle_scatter": 7.5,
"distance_scatter_max": 10,

SU85:

"angle_scatter": 5,
"distance_scatter_max": 7.5,

SU76:

"angle_scatter": 5.5,
"distance_scatter_max": 10,

ZiS-3 76mm:

"angle_scatter": 7.5,
"distance_scatter_max": 10,

As you can see the sactter angle of the SU85 is the most narrow, combined with a the lowest max scatter distance results in the SU85 hitting everything.

It's right there, Relic, change it already. That unit is simply OP by all means, it completely kills the late game.

Until a urgently needed patch arrives...

Regards
ace

Paks are probably the best way to deal with SU-85s, if you can't get an elephant.

Did you just read what I have written above?

And what role does the stug currently fit?

Right now? None that I see, because both roles are taken by superior tanks, at a slight icnrease in cost. AI is taken by Ostwind, and decent AT for that point in the game is taken by PIV.

That doesn't mean there isn't a viable role, my personal opinion is that I'd rather invest that hard earned fuel into one of the better versions. As to what role it should fill, in my opinion?:

It should be cheaper to produce, so that its a weak version of a PIV. Its role should be that of a mobile ATG, with decent AI, but nothing to boast of. By that, I specifically mean it should deal less damage than a PIV (say, 100 damage), but boast a higher penetration. It would be an inexpensive way to compliment your tank advances, or an excellent way to provide a resilient ATG as the game progresses.

The drawback? It should have a very sluggish turn rate, so having it unsupported is dumb. Combined arms have to be used.

SU-85 is still flat out broken, the end all AT unit for both factions should not be a non-doctrinal unit.

The Soviets can build a panther?

one good counter to the SU-85 is blitzkrieg on the P4, but this only comes at vet1. the SU-85 needs some type of nerf, and the T34 needs a buff and ram tweak.