Give US Snipers!

Veto Crossing the Wood which is a sniper map and that's fine if RNGJesus isn't against you.

The real problem is when you concretize a good flank and that fucking sniper doesn't die because of dumb game mechanisms.

Good thing it's getting fixed in path preview.

The Era of sniper RNG survival BS is over

It would've been nice that pathfinders and IR pathfinders have ability to snipe a model for 30-45 munitions.

Good thing it's getting fixed in path preview.

The Era of sniper RNG survival BS is over

I know, can't wait for this change on the next patch

If a factions' only counter to a sniper is fielding their own sniper, then you know that game design must have taken a wrong turn, somewhere.

Yes, watching sniper-vs-sniper play, camouflaging each other out for minutes might be OK to watch in an ESL cast. However, it doesn't seem very healthy/interesting to play as, in the long run (IMO, even CoH2 emplacement spam is more interesting than vCoH sniper spam).

The best option would be to make snipers feel a little less godlike:
- Sniper received accuracy
- Give a combat cooldown before snipers can recloak (currently you only get cooldown when firing from stealth)
- Give a speed debuff for cloaking (doesn't have to be 50%, but infantry has to be able to catch up)

Another option would be to reinforce other routes of counter play:
- Give more factions cheap non-scaling infantry that doesn't care about the MP bleed (like Ostruppen)
- Decent, affordable scouting vehicles for all (like Kubelwagen, unlike UC)
- Vision-obscuring abilities
- Reducing the availability of AT to allow vehicle counter-play

However, once you do that, make sure that the faction that relies entirely on snipers to get by (*cough* OST *cough*) actually has other options available against its enemies (*cough* USF *cough*). Otherwise, it is still going to be (nerfed)-sniper spam.

The last thing this game needs is more snipers.

If a factions' only counter to a sniper is fielding their own sniper, then you know that game design must have taken a wrong turn, somewhere.

Yes, watching sniper-vs-sniper play, camouflaging each other out for minutes might be OK to watch in an ESL cast. However, it doesn't seem very healthy/interesting to play as, in the long run (IMO, even CoH2 emplacement spam is more interesting than vCoH sniper spam).

The best option would be to make snipers feel a little less godlike:
- Sniper received accuracy
- Give a combat cooldown before snipers can recloak (currently you only get cooldown when firing from stealth)
- Give a speed debuff for cloaking (doesn't have to be 50%, but infantry has to be able to catch up)

Another option would be to reinforce other routes of counter play:
- Give more factions cheap non-scaling infantry that doesn't care about the MP bleed (like Ostruppen)
- Decent, affordable scouting vehicles for all (like Kubelwagen, unlike UC)
- Vision-obscuring abilities
- Reducing the availability of AT to allow vehicle counter-play

However, once you do that, make sure that the faction that relies entirely on snipers to get by (*cough* OST *cough*) actually has other options available against its enemies (*cough* USF *cough*). Otherwise, it is still going to be (nerfed)-sniper spam.

you don´t like snipers wars, OK, its fine, but that doesn´t imply there is something wrong with them....

and about your "solution proposal", adding Ostruppen for any and all faction is better than giving snipers to any and all factions?

Make snipers counters work as expetected or give WFA factions a sniper, imho a better solution and it will impact less on overall balance than adding new squads to 5 factions and them balance those cheaper squads againts all and any unit in game....


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OKW could get a sniper on the very same reason.

sniper gameplay is so gay though

you don´t like snipers wars, OK, its fine, but that doesn´t imply there is something wrong with them....

and about your "solution proposal", adding Ostruppen for any and all faction is better than giving snipers to any and all factions?

Make snipers counters work as expetected or give WFA factions a sniper, imho a better solution and it will impact less on overall balance than adding new squads to 5 factions and them balance those cheaper squads againts all and any unit in game....


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Sniper wars can remain an option. However it should not remain the ONLY option for some factions. This completely beats the paper-rock-scissors aspect of the game, and makes it boring/predictable.

Ask yourself. Would it make the game more interesting if the only counter to Emplacement spam were Mortar spam (and vice-versa)? Or would it make the game feel terribly lame/abusive?

For instance, if you field a sniper as OST vs UKF, you KNOW they will have to field a sniper back; otherwise there is literally no counter to the OST sniper. Knowing that there is no other way, you can immediately queue up a 222.

Now, I didn't say "any and all faction". I said "more factions". You only have to address factions that have issues vs snipers (or whose counter is another sniper):
- USF could get get their low-MP Rear Echelon squads back (and maybe do something about weapon slots; e.g., minesweeper takes up a slot, like AeroHank has been suggesting).
- UKF could have sniper detection on their AEC. UC is the worst sniper hunter in the entire franchise.
- OKW could get smoke on their MedHQ. Or they could get stealth detection on Luchs, so that Vet1 Puma (or infiltration cheese) is not the only sniper counter available.

hooray for 1.15 received accuracy next patch!

until then, M20 and very aggressive, micro-intensive flanking play

veto maps like Langres, Minsk or Crossing as they are an instant win for snipers

but its not easy, lets not lie

Sniper wars can remain an option. However it should not remain the ONLY option for some factions. This completely beats the paper-rock-scissors aspect of the game, and makes it boring/predictable.

Ask yourself. Would it make the game more interesting if the only counter to Emplacement spam were Mortar spam (and vice-versa)? Or would it make the game feel terribly lame/abusive?

For instance, if you field a sniper as OST vs UKF, you KNOW they will have to field a sniper back; otherwise there is literally no counter to the OST sniper. Knowing that there is no other way, you can immediately queue up a 222.

Now, I didn't say "any and all faction". I said "more factions". You only have to address factions that have issues vs snipers (or whose counter is another sniper):
- USF could get get their low-MP Rear Echelon squads back (and maybe do something about weapon slots; e.g., minesweeper takes up a slot, like AeroHank has been suggesting).
- UKF could have sniper detection on their AEC. UC is the worst sniper hunter in the entire franchise.
- OKW could get smoke on their MedHQ. Or they could get stealth detection on Luchs, so that Vet1 Puma (or infiltration cheese) is not the only sniper counter available.

yep, problem here being that WFA factions haven´t snipers, so counter-snipe is not an option for them. And furthermore, fuck rock-paper-sccissor thing for USF as they only have m20 (it has been proven is not a good counter to snipers)


And....cheap Rear echelons (nerfed with one slot for sweepers) are your proposal for USF???? wasn´t RE costs increased because the became really spammables and effective in the late game once racks have been teched? we are going to go back to some months ago with RE and racks because you don´t want to give snipers to WFA Factions??? doesn´t seem too clever, but fuck, I am a noob and you are a pro.

BTW, I didn´t remeber cheap RE a good sniper counter in the past......so, no sniper, cheap RE with verrry low DPS and teching for M20 (that it has been proved as a fail sniper counter tool) is your proposal for USF to figth snipers units?



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yep, problem here being that WFA factions haven´t snipers, so counter-snipe is not an option for them. And furthermore, fuck rock-paper-sccissor thing for USF as they only have m20 (it has been proven is not a good counter to snipers)


And....cheap Rear echelons (nerfed with one slot for sweepers) are your proposal for USF???? wasn´t RE costs increased because the became really spammables and effective in the late game once racks have been teched? we are going to go back to some months ago with RE and racks because you don´t want to give snipers to WFA Factions??? doesn´t seem too clever, but fuck, I am a noob and you are a pro.

BTW, I didn´t remeber cheap RE a good sniper counter in the past......so, no sniper, cheap RE with verrry low DPS and teching for M20 (that it has been proved as a fail sniper counter tool) is your proposal for USF to figth snipers units?



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The idea is that by using REs you will minimize your bleed. Thus, you will make a very expensive MP unit ineffective against your composition. Sure, you will never manage to kill the sniper; sure, the sniper will remain annoying. Sure, you might lose most confrontations because of that, but you will eventually win the war (because of lower MP bleed/better map control) -- and the enemy won't know if you also plan on fielding an m20 or not; that's the importance of having multiple options.

There are many ways to counter something in this game. From strongest to weakest:
1) 1-shot wipes, no chance of escape: AVRE, Sturmtiger, Tulips vs OST T3/Pak43/garrisons, Stuka Bomb vs Howitzers
2) Have the odds in your favour in an even fight: E.g., AEC vs Luchs, etc
3) Be strong enough to scare something away: All AT guns vs lights, Heavy TDs vs slow-moving Churchills.
4) Make an expensive unit ineffective by presenting low-value targets: Osttruppen/Soviet weapon teams vs snipers.

Yes, weapon racks are an issue. However, what if we made REs only able to pick up one weapon instead of dual-weapons? Or what if we gave RE's inferior versions of the weapons they pick?

Good thing it's getting fixed in path preview.

The Era of sniper RNG survival BS is over

How? By only making them 15% easier to hit or I missed something? Or I just missed the joke?

The idea is that by using REs you will minimize your bleed. Thus, you will make a very expensive MP unit ineffective against your composition. Sure, you will never manage to kill the sniper; sure, the sniper will remain annoying. Sure, you might lose most confrontations because of that, but you will eventually win the war (because of lower MP bleed/better map control) -- and the enemy won't know if you also plan on fielding an m20 or not; that's the importance of having multiple options.

There are many ways to counter something in this game. From strongest to weakest:
1) 1-shot wipes, no chance of escape: AVRE, Sturmtiger, Tulips vs OST T3/Pak43/garrisons, Stuka Bomb vs Howitzers
2) Have the odds in your favour in an even fight: E.g., AEC vs Luchs, etc
3) Be strong enough to scare something away: All AT guns vs lights, Heavy TDs vs slow-moving Churchills.
4) Make an expensive unit ineffective by presenting low-value targets: Osttruppen/Soviet weapon teams vs snipers.

Yes, weapon racks are an issue. However, what if we made REs only able to pick up one weapon instead of dual-weapons? Or what if we gave RE's inferior versions of the weapons they pick?

how exactly do you maintain map control when youre loosing every engagement??

how exactly do you maintain map control when youre loosing every engagement??

You are right; you won't be able to hold on to anything if you lose every engagement.

However, what I meant was that the sniper will eventually push your squads off from every engagement he is present. The sniper, however, is expensive, and your squads are dirt-cheap to reinforce (wasn't RE reinforcement cost 16MP or something?). The sniper(s) can't be present everywhere; thus, while you retreat one squad, 3 other squads are busy capping the other side of the map.

(pre-nerf) RE spam is not going to solve your problem outright. But it's going to postpone/mitigate it until you decide it is time to deploy the real counter.

However, we don't have to go to the way-back machine to see how this pans out. Has anybody ever found UKF sniper-spam effective vs Osttruppen spam (even when no OST sniper is present)?

You are right; you won't be able to hold on to anything if you lose every engagement.

However, what I meant was that the sniper will eventually push your squads off from every engagement he is present. The sniper, however, is expensive, and your squads are dirt-cheap to reinforce (wasn't RE reinforcement cost 16MP or something?). The sniper(s) can't be present everywhere; thus, while you retreat one squad, 3 other squads are busy capping the other side of the map.

(pre-nerf) RE spam is not going to solve your problem outright. But it's going to postpone/mitigate it until you decide it is time to deploy the real counter.

However, we don't have to go to the way-back machine to see how this pans out. Has anybody ever found UKF sniper-spam effective vs Osttruppen spam (even when no OST sniper is present)?

reinforcement cost for echelons is 25 though

reinforcement cost for echelons is 25 though

I know! That's why I mentioned that reinstating pre-nerf RE's (was it 16MP per model?) might give USF another avenue. (provided we are careful about which guns the REs have access to, and how many!).

This could be one way of weakening OST sniper dominance vs USF without adding more snipers to the game!

The idea is that by using REs you will minimize your bleed. Thus, you will make a very expensive MP unit ineffective against your composition. Sure, you will never manage to kill the sniper; sure, the sniper will remain annoying. Sure, you might lose most confrontations because of that, but you will eventually win the war (because of lower MP bleed/better map control) -- and the enemy won't know if you also plan on fielding an m20 or not; that's the importance of having multiple options.

Yes, weapon racks are an issue. However, what if we made REs only able to pick up one weapon instead of dual-weapons? Or what if we gave RE's inferior versions of the weapons they pick?

please, don´t give USF snipers counters then, if your sniper counter proposal is stop using rifles, start using RE becasue they bleed less, nerf those RE (If in the past USF only could use rifles and RE, now one of them will be nerfed by removing one slot, so more rifles everywhere) and then, on top of that, teching to LT tier to field other sniper counter (m20)....


A faction with only two stock infantery units, RE being the unit with less DPS out of the box of the game, the worse engineers of the whole game (you don´t need them to repair vehicles, so less utility, it is expesive to reinforce comparing with others engineers, you need to side tech to give them some figthing capabilities, no flamethrower upgrade, no mines...)

I think, your are a great user with great suggestions, but this one wasn´t validated by your QA department, or you didn´t take enough time to give it a though before posting it.....becasue at the end, what you are saying is, there isn´t a USF counter to sniper other than the m20, but hey, you can stop fielding the best unit of the USF arsenal and start using RE, yeah, they don´t have any figthing power, and in the actual game, they are not even cheap to maintain, but you can use them coz they will bleed you less than rifles....


Yeah, in the past, RE were cheaper to reinforce, so you could replace any lost rifle with them, coz in late game, they are more cost-effective than rifles if you give them some upgrades from racks....Problem here being that you never replaced rifles with RE in the early game, only when a rifle was lost during the match....in the early game, YOU NEED RIFLES.

Aren´t there other options that actually give to USF a proper sniper counter???? if not, then, buffing m20 or give USF a sniper unit is a better solution imho.

Have you tried smoke & flank?

That was my idea sometime ago to make US Snipers in T0. It would be interesting, micro-reqired and... assymetrical! Which faction is also can get T0 snipers? Noone!

Now US getting mortar... will see how it works. In that case - snipers for US won't be really good. Btw, Pathfinders could be really used as "half-sniper" squad, like UK Infantry squads from vCoH with scoped rifle. Pay-2-snipe, why not?

P.S. UKF should also have no snipers, cos... for God sake, they have everything! Let them feel lack of something already, not only normal artillery!