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russian armor

Bazookas

6 May 2016, 19:53 PM
#21
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1



That's because 325 on the ladder is not worth bragging about.


Oh yes it is when you play 3 times a week at most 2 hours every time and mostly team games not 1v1s :bananadance:
6 May 2016, 20:51 PM
#22
avatar of LuGer33

Posts: 174

USF doesn't have a lot of tools to fight heavies. Jacksons, swarming Wolverines, swarming Easy 8's. Typically it isn't even worth trying to take on a KT if you don't have some hand-held AT around to give you a bit of a better chance. All of this requires combined arms and micro while the heavy simply has to have reasonable support and A-moved forward.

You can't tell me a Bazooka blob is effective against a KT when half the shots won't penetrate and one blast from a KT will decimate any USF player bad enough to A-move a blob towards it.

Nerfing Bazookas specifically so they suck more against the hardest targets to kill in the game is completely counter-intuitive and will only put USF further behind the Axis factions in the late game.
9 May 2016, 10:06 AM
#23
avatar of scratchedpaintjob
Donator 11

Posts: 1021 | Subs: 1

Have you ever tried kiting with Ostwind, sniper or straight up combined arms MG?

of course, unfortunately they are all very ineffective on an urban map. and personally i find the ostwind a little lackluster, its certainly not bad, but imo its AI is not good enough to have 0 AT(especially in 2v2 AT,there are always enemy tanks).

USF doesn't have a lot of tools to fight heavies. Jacksons, swarming Wolverines, swarming Easy 8's. Typically it isn't even worth trying to take on a KT if you don't have some hand-held AT around to give you a bit of a better chance. All of this requires combined arms and micro while the heavy simply has to have reasonable support and A-moved forward.
"reasonable support" requires good micro aswell, otherwise the jackson will be able to deal with the kt


You can't tell me a Bazooka blob is effective against a KT when half the shots won't penetrate and one blast from a KT will decimate any USF player bad enough to A-move a blob towards it.
actually as even katiof admitted, amassed zooks are quite effective

Nerfing Bazookas specifically so they suck more against the hardest targets to kill in the game is completely counter-intuitive and will only put USF further behind the Axis factions in the late game.

imo that is how it is supposed to be! the USF are supposed to need a TD like the m36 in the lategame to deal with enemy tanks. USF have damn good early and mid game and extremely good AI...
9 May 2016, 21:12 PM
#24
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 556

Zooks really? Whats next M20 to strong pls nerf????
9 May 2016, 22:36 PM
#25
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1096



That's because 325 on the ladder is not worth bragging about.


I'd be interested to see how many active 1v1 players there even are XD
9 May 2016, 23:29 PM
#26
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

i think it's ok.

it is a nice fall back position when losing slightly to compensate for late tanks.

i haven't really met players who spam bazookas as avidly as i do but when i do, i don't find it too difficult.
10 May 2016, 06:02 AM
#27
avatar of scratchedpaintjob
Donator 11

Posts: 1021 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post9 May 2016, 21:12 PMGenObi
Zooks really? Whats next M20 to strong pls nerf????

such arguments, much wow. GenObi too stronk, pls nerf!!!11!

i think it's ok.

it is a nice fall back position when losing slightly to compensate for late tanks.

i haven't really met players who spam bazookas as avidly as i do but when i do, i don't find it too difficult.

yeah, normally i have no problem dealing with zooks blobs. might have been the map...

10 May 2016, 08:51 AM
#28
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

hi there,

when playing with or against usf i have the feeling, that bazookas are either a tad too spammable or a tad too good against heavies like the tiger or the kt.

according to coh2-stats the bazooka has 80 damage and 130 penetration at near, while the tiger has 300 armor, which means that a little less than half of the shots penetrate iirc.
at far, the penetration is still 110, while the puma for example has only 80 at far (though far is more far for the puma). another comparison would be to the maingun of the panzer IV, where the bazooka has better penetration at all ranges.

anyway, i would propose a slightly higher penetration dropoff, something like 130->115->100. that way, good tank micro and kiting would be rewarded.


the main reason bazooka is spammable against the tiger is due to deflection damage. the bazooka deal 20 damage on deflection, and it's a pretty accurate weapon. The panzerschreck deal 30 damage on deflection, but it rarely deflect against the majority of allied armor.

if you want to nerf the bazooka against tank, lower its deflection damage. This way the bazooka can't brute force the thick frontal armor of a tiger.
10 May 2016, 08:56 AM
#29
avatar of Arclyte

Posts: 692

is this thread seriously still going?
10 May 2016, 09:09 AM
#30
avatar of Ful4n0

Posts: 345

hi there,

when playing with or against usf i have the feeling, that bazookas are either a tad too spammable or a tad too good against heavies like the tiger or the kt.

according to coh2-stats the bazooka has 80 damage and 130 penetration at near, while the tiger has 300 armor, which means that a little less than half of the shots penetrate iirc.
at far, the penetration is still 110, while the puma for example has only 80 at far (though far is more far for the puma). another comparison would be to the maingun of the panzer IV, where the bazooka has better penetration at all ranges.

anyway, i would propose a slightly higher penetration dropoff, something like 130->115->100. that way, good tank micro and kiting would be rewarded.



yeah, normally i have no problem dealing with zooks blobs. might have been the map...



on a sidenote, my mate and i didnt play for over a year and are getting back at it again now.



lol,

so you are not a pro player, you have been away from COH2 from over a year, you don´t have problems dealing with zooks in other maps, but all people answering in this thread are wrong and zooks deserve a nerf....

10 May 2016, 09:19 AM
#31
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2016, 09:09 AMFul4n0
lol,

so you are not a pro player, you have been away from COH2 from over a year, you don´t have problems dealing with zooks in other maps, but all people answering in this thread are wrong and zooks deserve a nerf....


Thats pretty typical...

Absolutely last thing people blame on the loss is their own lack of skill/inexperience, while it should be the first thing they should fix while staying as far as possible from balance forums.
10 May 2016, 09:53 AM
#32
avatar of RiCE

Posts: 284

If relic should remove double upgrades, and it would be fine...
10 May 2016, 09:59 AM
#33
avatar of scratchedpaintjob
Donator 11

Posts: 1021 | Subs: 1

if you want to nerf the bazooka against tank, lower its deflection damage. This way the bazooka can't brute force the thick frontal armor of a tiger.

This might indeed be better than a penetration nerf. Was there deflection damage in vcoh?
jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2016, 08:56 AMArclyte
is this thread seriously still going?
seems like it. Probably because you only posted once with your valuable Input.

jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2016, 09:09 AMFul4n0


lol,

so you are not a pro player, you have been away from COH2 from over a year, you don´t have problems dealing with zooks in other maps, but all people answering in this thread are wrong and zooks deserve a nerf....

my mate was away for one year, I was still playing. I don't say that the people here are wrong. I just want to exchange some arguments. Katiofs bullshitposting isn't that IMO. And it wasn't that instance only, I too had some games where I felt, that zooks were too good against a KT. Do you have any experience regarding amassed zooks against heavy tanks?

jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2016, 09:19 AMKatitof

Thats pretty typical...

Absolutely last thing people blame on the loss is their own lack of skill/inexperience, while it should be the first thing they should fix while staying as far as possible from balance forums.
bla, bla, bla. Your bullshit gets repetitive. Player card pls.

And for the record: yes, I might have been too bad. But the alternatives katiof mentioned to tiger face checking a corner were to laughable to be even considered ( 222, lol. Pioneers, rofl)

10 May 2016, 10:31 AM
#34
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2016, 09:53 AMRiCE
If relic should remove double upgrades, and it would be fine...

Which would also require a considerable buffs to pretty much all weapons.

Don't try to fix what isn't broken.
10 May 2016, 10:56 AM
#35
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930


This might indeed be better than a penetration nerf. Was there deflection damage in vcoh?
seems like it.


deflected damage were in vcoh, but that game is different. You can't really spam bazooka in coh1 the same way you spam bazooka in coh2
10 May 2016, 12:32 PM
#36
avatar of scratchedpaintjob
Donator 11

Posts: 1021 | Subs: 1

I just looked it up: in vcoh they had 15% deflection damage, a reload of 8! seconds, terrible accuracy at far and worse penetration (45% to pen pz4 front), but it had 120 base damage. Of course this is hard to compare to coh2 ( lack of side armor, overall different game)

And it's the first time I have to agree with katiof in a long time, in that reducing the weapon slots is not an option. This would be a hard overnerf ( I mean compare it to my suggestion, which is a very very minor nerf)
10 May 2016, 16:04 PM
#37
avatar of Rocket

Posts: 728

Zooks are fine especially considering the armor there up against. You would have to have 6 zooks on either 3 rifles, but most people use RE then yes they can become pretty effective with tank support. However that leaves you losing a shit ton of AI ability.

My 2v2 partner does it a lot with RE zooks and just uses them to cap harass early on why I focus on AI rifles and uses them as AT support for me later. Therefore I make up for his lack of AI and he does with light vehicles. I play mostly 2v2 tho but I cannot see how in 1v1 zooks would be a problem if your going to lose that much AI vs your opponent.

In 4v4 before I saw a guy take 3x rangers with 3x zooks each, it was pretty hilarious they could one volley panthers at once.
10 May 2016, 20:12 PM
#38
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

Not to mention Zook upgrades increases USF armor rush time. If the enemy is spamming zooks, you can counter this with AI infantry quite well (just keep the armor behind your infantry).
10 May 2016, 20:27 PM
#39
avatar of scratchedpaintjob
Donator 11

Posts: 1021 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2016, 16:04 PMRocket
Zooks are fine especially considering the armor there up against. You would have to have 6 zooks on either 3 rifles, but most people use RE then yes they can become pretty effective with tank support. However that leaves you losing a shit ton of AI ability.

My 2v2 partner does it a lot with RE zooks and just uses them to cap harass early on why I focus on AI rifles and uses them as AT support for me later. Therefore I make up for his lack of AI and he does with light vehicles. I play mostly 2v2 tho but I cannot see how in 1v1 zooks would be a problem if your going to lose that much AI vs your opponent.

In 4v4 before I saw a guy take 3x rangers with 3x zooks each, it was pretty hilarious they could one volley panthers at once.

well, i dont play a lot of 1v1 ( if i have the time for gaming, i want to spend it with some buddies :) ), so i can only talk about 2v2. and there the lack of AI is not that much of a problem, as you state yourself. and if you have zooks on a captain, one RE and one rifleman, you still have slot space for BARS, which is normally still enough AI

to your last point: i dont think that 9 zooks should kill a panther from the front in one volley

Not to mention Zook upgrades increases USF armor rush time. If the enemy is spamming zooks, you can counter this with AI infantry quite well (just keep the armor behind your infantry).

well, most people get the tech for BARs and it isnt that expensive.

11 May 2016, 01:38 AM
#40
avatar of DaciaJC

Posts: 73

jump backJump back to quoted post10 May 2016, 16:04 PMRocket


In 4v4 before I saw a guy take 3x rangers with 3x zooks each, it was pretty hilarious they could one volley panthers at once.


This is possible?
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