M10 call-in is too strong compared to Puma call-in

Jump back to quoted post26 Apr 2016, 22:02 PMDullahan

Panic Puma is always a bad idea.

It exists purely to lose games for people.

Jump back to quoted post26 Apr 2016, 22:04 PMTobis

Panic Puma is always a good idea, there is a reason mobile defense is the most used Ostheer commander in ESL.

Jump back to quoted post26 Apr 2016, 22:15 PMDullahan

Just because people use it doesn't mean it's a good idea. They would almost always be better off teching normally and getting better units out than they are using the Puma.

The only time it works as a comeback unit is when the opponent forgets it exists and gets caught off guard.

Example:
https://youtu.be/5vkoaybI6so?t=678

Jump back to quoted post26 Apr 2016, 23:01 PMTobis

These are the best players in the game playing in a tournament for a cash prize, you really think 1/3 players would choose it if it was bad?

Jump back to quoted post26 Apr 2016, 23:40 PMKallipolan

The other problem with M10s is crush. Crush is an inherently bullshit mechanic and should be severely nerfed. The occasional crush makes for a cool moment but when M10s and Cromwells are crushing whole squads it needs to go.

Jump back to quoted post26 Apr 2016, 23:06 PMDullahan

They wouldn't choose it if they thought it was bad, but they're wrong about it being good.

It's a crutch for mistakes.

Jump back to quoted post26 Apr 2016, 23:06 PMDullahan

They wouldn't choose it if they thought it was bad, but they're wrong about it being good.

It's a crutch for mistakes.

Jump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 02:46 AMFiresparks

https://www.coh2.org/news/52176/esl-go4coh2-statistics-part-iii-commanders

Mobile defense is the most popular doctrine of the entire game during ESL. It was picked 92 times with a 47% winrate, compared to the 2nd place , Scavenger doctrine at 62 times with a 44% winrate.

if mobile is not "good", it's the best out of selection of "bad" doctrines.

Jump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 03:22 AMDullahan

And why is it picked a lot?

Because Puma provides a braindead counter to light vehicles. If you're dying to halftracks and stuarts or t70's you can call it in and it will give you a second wind in a game you would have otherwise lost.

You know what you can have at the same time as the Puma (6 cp ~12 minutes) if you have even map control and tech up? A stug.

The kind of situation where it works is like the game I linked, where Ostheer got his ass kicked and it's his only option to stay in the game, and even then it only works against an opponent who makes serious mistakes and isn't prepared for it.

Jump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 03:24 AMTobis

And that somehow makes it... bad?

Jump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 02:53 AMeasierwithaturret

What else does the doctrine have aside from m10?

Jump back to quoted post27 Apr 2016, 03:38 AMDullahan

It's bad compared to using core army units and doctrines throughout the game, yes.

Having mobile defense in your deck and ignoring anything past Battlephase 1 just in case you need a panic puma is dumb. What you see people do is take Tiger doctrines with it so if they do well in the mid game they'll just get a Tiger instead of picking mobile defense.