Guards are underpowered

Anyone else sees them as useless and a total waste of both mu and mp?

They come in late at 2CP.
They cost a lot to reinforce, but their armor is barely higher than conscripts.
Their DPS is the same as a regular grenadier squad, are you serious?
They are useless shit until you upgrade them with a 75mu lmg.
Their button is useless too, costing 40 mu on top of needing the lmg upgrade ?????
Their grenade costs 45mu but does near no damage, and no damage at all in buildings.

They aren't strong enough to kill a luchs alone and they cost 330mp ?
They can barely kill a 222 now.

You want penals to have some use, but what about guards infantry?

Even conscripts with ptrs is a better use of mp/mu.

Use them with penals and cons. Merge the cons.
Don't spam them and expect them to do much

I forgot the biggest problem: they are literal piñatas , always dropping free stuff for the enemy.

Use them with penals and cons. Merge the cons.
Don't spam them and expect them to do much

Then what's the point? I'd rather buy an AT and keep spamming cons with AT nade and in best case a PPsh upgrade.

No really, guards are useless as they are now.
At least the button has some use before, but now what do you use it for?

!?!?!?!

RGD-33 is one of the best grenades in the game after the silliness that is Light Gammon Bombs.


...for one.

Button definitely might as well be just be a button that does nothing most of the time though.

!?!?!?!

RGD-33 is one of the best grenades in the game after the silliness that is Light Gammon Bombs.


...for one.

Button definitely might as well be just be a button that does nothing most of the time though.

It does no damage, if I hit an MG with it, it kills only 2 of them, and when hitting a garisoned squad it's not as strong as a shock troops or USF grenade.

It should only cost 20mu for this.

Alright so lets go through the list.

-They come in about the same time as a luchs. Hardly late.

-They do cost alot to reinforce. This is why they are fantastic candidates for merge.

-Their DPS with the LMG upgrade is higher than a grenadier squad. They are not meant to engage infantry head on in the same way grens are either.

-They need the upgrade to fight infantry. Yes.

-Button is a light snare THAT DOES NOT NEED TO PENETRATE to be effective. A KT is buttoned as easily as a Kuble. This is where it shines.

-Their grenades are top tier in terms of AOE and damage. They aren't supposed to wipe an entire MG team. That's dumb.

-They aren't supposed to solo a luchs...Why on earth would they? Put them behind green cover and they will win unless the luchs drives over them.

-If they are out in the open engaging a 222 you are likely going to get pushed around and lose. Good.

-Against garrisoned units it depends entirely on where they are in the garrison and what they're in. A badly aimed USF nade will suck as much as a badly aimed guard-nade.

Alright so lets go through the list.

-They come in about the same time as a luchs. Hardly late.

They come after or just at the same time, it's hard to micro all the important units and get a guards at that rate.
Again why wouldn't I simply keep spamming cons+maxim and a AT gun instead of using a 330mp unit that can't take down luchs alone?

-They do cost alot to reinforce. This is why they are fantastic candidates for merge.

Merging = 3/4 of your squad are cons.
It means you use guards with cons units in them, and remember they don't get their PTRS or DP28 back once they lose it.
So what do you merge for? for nothing.

-Their DPS with the LMG upgrade is higher than a grenadier squad. They are not meant to engage infantry head on in the same way grens are either.

a 330mp squad needs a 75mu ammo to be better than regular mainline infantry?
Good point.
If they are not made to engage infantry, what are they made for? They can't even kill a puma.

-Button is a light snare THAT DOES NOT NEED TO PENETRATE to be effective. A KT is buttoned as easily as a Kuble. This is where it shines.

With that alone I know you have no idea what you're talking about.
Button hardly snares the tank, it's so easy to evade, it doesn't deactivate turret anymore and it lasts nothing.
It costs more than panzerschreks to use it and everyone agrees it's useless.

-Their grenades are top tier in terms of AOE and damage. They aren't supposed to wipe an entire MG team. That's dumb.

Why is a top tier in terms of AOE dealing less damage than a 30mu grenade from USF or the same grenade thrown by shocks?
It makes no sense.

-They aren't supposed to solo a luchs

Yes they are, what's their use otherwise?

-Against garrisoned units it depends entirely on where they are in the garrison and what they're in. A badly aimed USF nade will suck as much as a badly aimed guard-nade.

Actually no, the last patch buffs the shocks grenades to do this.
Why not guards?

It does no damage, if I hit an MG with it, it kills only 2 of them

Then it wasn't in cover, because I've seen squads in cover get wiped by RGD-33s constantly.

Guards should not kill a light vehicle by looking at it and they don't. I dont understand why you think that's an issue. They are elite ranged infantry. At vet 0 with LMG's they will beat Vet 0 grens with LMG's handily provided you don't move them around. In cover they can kill any light vehicle the axis wants to throw at them if it hangs around.

Conscripts use the wepons of the squad they merge with. They 100% get the ptrs/dp mgs from the guards. Merge merge merge. Seriously, they gain everything and lose nothing.

Lets talk about button:

The point of button is (and should be) a support ability. It does not kill shit on its own nor does it enable to guards squad to solo light vehicles that wander into range. It supports your own armour by debuffing enemy tanks with a lower rate of fire, lower rate of movement and lower turret traverse speeds. It makes your opponent not want to fight you at this particular moment and that's all it needs to do.

It can turn a KT into a large immobile investment much quicker than anything else in the game save for a demomine combo. No one wants to continue the fight when they get buttoned, they back off and wait to re-engage when they can fight on a better footing. If they can win with the debuff on then you were going to lose the fight no matter what.

Guards are great now...

No no, you're missing the point, come on are you doing it on purpose?

I didn't say they should be able to kill it on sight.
Just that it should be possible for them to "kill it".

Right now to lights, the damage they deal is ridiculously low and slow.

A luchs can at the very least resist, but a fucking 222? Come the fuck on.

The point I'm trying to make her is that it should be strong enough to scare him and think better about his approach.


The button isn't strong anymore, stop talking about it as if it could really get some use and slow down tanks, it doesn't anymore, unless you can seriously get close to the tank and use it, it can still shoot you now, so use it and get hit hard.

As long as they are not as good as panzergrenadiers, they will never be good.

Then it wasn't in cover, because I've seen squads in cover get wiped by RGD-33s constantly.

Maybe I got it wrong for their grenades, but it still doesn't do enough damage on garisoned.

They'll never be good as Panzergrenadier because they have completely different roles.

Guards are a defensive infantry unit that should be used in conjunction with other units where they provide valuable firesupport while also having grenades for the times you need it. They won't kill armour, but they can deter the lighter vehicles, especially when using conscript sandbags. Button you probably don't want to be using at max range anyways, unless you really need to, but it still cripple's the vehicle combat effectiveness.

They are a jack-of-all-trades unit.

This is ridiculous, cons are too weak to not get replaced by guards as a mainline infantry.

Defensive or not, a guard unit shouldn't struggle to destroy Grens or volks.

I'm sure the next patch will introduce some Penals into guards meta that people will cry non-stop about.

They are six man Grens with a good CQC grenade, soft AT, and mobile lmg upgrade that gives them the best at snare ingame

Guards are fine, best designed infantry unit ingame imo (or tied with rifles and Panzergrens)

Anyone else sees them as useless and a total waste of both mu and mp?

They come in late at 2CP.
They cost a lot to reinforce, but their armor is barely higher than conscripts.
Their DPS is the same as a regular grenadier squad, are you serious?
They are useless shit until you upgrade them with a 75mu lmg.
Their button is useless too, costing 40 mu on top of needing the lmg upgrade ?????
Their grenade costs 45mu but does near no damage, and no damage at all in buildings.

They aren't strong enough to kill a luchs alone and they cost 330mp ?
They can barely kill a 222 now.

You want penals to have some use, but what about guards infantry?

Even conscripts with ptrs is a better use of mp/mu.

you are joking right?

Guards need a DPS and button buff.

Guards need a DPS and button buff.

no

no

yes

let me ask you this, in which way or how are you using gaurds? how do you plan to use them?

I want to use them as main infantry to replace conscripts in between early and mid game.
I know this is wrong, but any other use seems so bad compared with other tools soviet have.

I understand it's no use to spawn more than one guard.