US/USSR need a better generalist tank!

I think it's time to ask for toys for the US/USSR, these two faction desperately needs a decent generalist tank in stock, as OKW/US/UKF release. AKA M4 with 76mm & T-34/85

Reasons:
1:the game theme move on to late war period (King Tiger, Jadgpanzer IV, Sturm tiger),but the poor soviet is still using early war vehicles, the T-34/85 is an iconic tank both mass produced(20K before WW2) and came into action by the end of 1943, and join almost every major eastern offenses long before KT,Jadgpanzer IV, Sturm Tiger came into service.


2:the US army "enjoys" the privileges of tanks made with glued tissue armor, ppl consider the Tank crew made US tank OP in small battles, but same as T-34/85, Sherman 76mm were rapidly shipped to western front after Normandy and participated every US major battles in western front! I think T-34/85 and M4 76mm deserve a place as a non-doctrinal unit!


3: Balance issue, can only be build able as a Tier 4.5 upgrade, 150MP/75 fuel end-phase?


BTW Panther enjoys staying as a non-doctrinal Axis unit since vCOH, 2006 and have no problem with it.
King Tiger think it's fine.


Behold, the glory of quantity over quality!
Show Spoiler


Show Spoiler

Behold, the glory of quantity over quality!

/thread

Spamming these medium+ tanks would break the game. Unnecessary. They are already there doctrinally.

/thread

Spamming these medium+ tanks would break the game. Unnecessary. They are already there doctrinally.

That means any doctrine with these medium+ tanks are game breaking right? Being non-doctrine means players could use or see these tanks more often(as they participate the wars which panther/KT/Jadgpanzer combines)


BTW, Panther is considered as medium++ tank, should it be doctrinal?

Another allie's fanboy...

Don't you understand, that T-34-76 is AWESOME TANK! No matter, that it is your only hope in late, if you don't take doctrine with tanks, no matter, that it comes so late, no matter, that it suck to any other tank... IT'S AWESOME, YOU CAN SPAM IT!!! AND THEN FEED PANTHERS WITH FREE FRAGS AND VETERACNY, BRO!!!

And your statement about M4A3... ridiculous. M4A3 was top-middle-tank in game, before Cromwells came. Those chaning rounds - it's perfect agianst all targets, you understand it?! Ignore, that Panzer 4 is same effective against all targets with 1 type of rounds, ignore, that M4A3 is your only middle tank late, if you didn't take E8 or Persh. And, of course, ignore, that it is pretty paper. IT'S STILL OP!!!

But... I think we should imporve AI power of Panther, I think it should not only dominate over allie's tanks, but also over allie's infantry. Because, you know - Im axis-retard, duuurp.

That means any doctrine with these medium+ tanks are game breaking right? Being non-doctrine means players could use or see these tanks more often(as they participate the wars which panther/KT/Jadgpanzer combines)


BTW, Panther is considered as medium++ tank, should it be doctrinal?

No, because they are limited to balanced doctrines and it sounds like you want to make them cheap spammable units.

Panther costs 200 fuel, is very poor vs Infantry and it is not a generalist tank. Why is this even a comparison? Panther is closer to Firefly than T-34/85.

Another allie's fanboy...

Don't you understand, that T-34-76 is AWESOME TANK! No matter, that it is your only hope in late, if you don't take doctrine with tanks, no matter, that it comes so late, no matter, that it suck to any other tank... IT'S AWESOME, YOU CAN SPAM IT!!! AND THEN FEED PANTHERS WITH FREE FRAGS AND VETERACNY, BRO!!!

And your statement about M4A3... ridiculous. M4A3 was top-middle-tank in game, before Cromwells came. Those chaning rounds - it's perfect agianst all targets, you understand it?! Ignore, that Panzer 4 is same effective against all targets with 1 type of rounds, ignore, that M4A3 is your only middle tank late, if you didn't take E8 or Persh. And, of course, ignore, that it is pretty paper. IT'S STILL OP!!!

But... I think we should imporve AI power of Panther, I think it should not only dominate over allie's tanks, but also over allie's infantry. Because, you know - Im axis-retard, duuurp.

T-34/76, the panther ration

No, because they are limited to balanced doctrines and it sounds like you want to make them cheap spammable units.

Nobody likes "cheap n' spammable units" ok? Otherwise, Osttrupens would be more popular for Ostheers.

We want tough and normal priced tanks, like T-34-85. It costs 130 or 135 fuel, if I remember right. Let it be non-doctrinal and for same price - everyone will be happy! And for "spam-lovers" put on 76 in doctrines instead.

Same goes for Shermans.

There is nothing wrong with shermans and for Sov, read preview notes.

There is nothing wrong with shermans and for Sov, read preview notes.

Yea, rised power of MGs on T-34. Great, now It can really stand against Panther in late. And KT, KT!! It will be scared of all those modified MGs, there will be bulletshtorm from T-34s.

Seriously, T-34 is not light car, it is tank. They must buff main cannon, not MGs, if they really want to make T-34-76 better. And best way was to change it to T-34-85, which is pretty good both against infantry and tanks. That's reliable tank for T4 soviet late, which will definitely make USSR better against heavy and superheavy axis tanks.

Nobody likes "cheap n' spammable units" ok? Otherwise, Osttrupens would be more popular for Ostheers.

Are you really comparing Ostruppen to T-34/85 and 76mm Sherman? Great logic.

Are you really comparing Ostruppen to T-34/85 and 76mm Sherman? Great logic.

I comparing Osttrupen to T-34-76 and M4A3 Sherman. They all are "cheap and spammable" units. Maybe Shreman is less cheap and spammable, but it's more effective than T-34-76 btw...

T-34-76 is really "soviet osttrupen tank". Effective only in large numbers, cheap and pretty useless when it's alone against other same type units. It would be more reasonable to put normal tank in T4, and move 76 in doctrines for those, who want to play through spam. Just like with Osttrupens. Grenadeers are your basic, Osttrupens - option for spammers.

That's more reasonable, again.

T-34-76 is really "soviet osttrupen tank".

Except T-34 is a tank. Now with no OKW schrecks it is getting big indirect buff. There is no reason why allies should get more powerful standard tanks. Choose doctrine if you want them. End of discussion.

Yea, rised power of MGs on T-34. Great, now It can really stand against Panther in late. And KT, KT!! It will be scared of all those modified MGs, there will be bulletshtorm from T-34s.

Its not supposed to stand up to them.
The new Su-85 however is with penetration and vet ensuring reliable damage.

Seriously, T-34 is not light car, it is tank. They must buff main cannon, not MGs, if they really want to make T-34-76 better. And best way was to change it to T-34-85, which is pretty good both against infantry and tanks. That's reliable tank for T4 soviet late, which will definitely make USSR better against heavy and superheavy axis tanks.

Not really, the MG buffs are enough, the vet improves reload enough, decreased cost will allow you to more easily get more of them and together with new SU-85, they'll be more then enough to handle everything except super heavy TDs.

Except T-34 is a tank. Now with no OKW schrecks it is getting big indirect buff. There is no reason why allies should get more powerful standard tanks. Choose doctrine if you want them. End of discussion.

your signature is quite intriguing, end of discussion

The moment you realize shermans are actually better than Panzer 4s

Except T-34 is a tank. Now with no OKW schrecks it is getting big indirect buff. There is no reason why allies should get more powerful standard tanks. Choose doctrine if you want them. End of discussion.

Ok, soviets should have powerfull tanks only with doctrines, get it.

Why then it accepted to Axis and UK to have powerfull tanks WITHOUT doctrines? Do they have some penalties for that, like... no good infantry without doctrines, or infantry weapons are only in doctrines?

You see, system, that allows Soviets to have normal units (not only tanks but also infantry) only with doctrines... Is not compensated with something! Stock units mostly are trashy, resourse income is not increased, pop cap is same (that's for spammin faction ok, lol)...

That doctrinal addiction is part of assymetrical balance, I know, but it is not balancing at all. It hardly cripples soviets! You want to get ISU? Ok, no T-34-85 for you bro! For some reasons, OKW may call Panthers and JT's at once because... Panther is not doctrinal, lol!

Is it ok at all? Compensate us that doctrinal addiction with something, really and everything will be allright.

Ok, soviets should have powerfull tanks only with doctrines, get it.

Why then it accepted to Axis and UK to have powerfull tanks WITHOUT doctrines? Do they have some penalties for that, like... no good infantry without doctrines, or infantry weapons are only in doctrines?

You see, system, that allows Soviets to have normal units (not only tanks but also infantry) only with doctrines... Is not compensated with something! Stock units mostly are trashy, resourse income is not increased, pop cap is same (that's for spammin faction ok, lol)...

That doctrinal addiction is part of assymetrical balance, I know, but it is not balancing at all. It hardly cripples soviets! You want to get ISU? Ok, no T-34-85 for you bro! For some reasons, OKW may call Panthers and JT's at once because... Panther is not doctrinal, lol!

Is it ok at all? Compensate us that doctrinal addiction with something, really and everything will be allright.

Relic is a Western company so they sanction USSR ingame to keep em down!!1!1

T-34/76, the panther ration

You get can 3 of them when a panther comes out. L2P

You get can 3 of them when a panther comes out. L2P

280/80*3 = 840/240>>>>>>>>Panther, L2 Learn some kindergarten math



https://www.coh2.org/topic/51924/fallschirmjager-lmg34-upgrade-unlock


BTW, falls are fine, no LMG needed

Wow, MissCommisar... Think about new su85 and t34-76. You can deal reliable damage to heavies with 240 pen on su85 (no more this rng penetration fest with an old one). And you can cover your su85 against infantry with t34-76. Note, their cost combined just a little more than single OKW panther. Yes, they need more popcap, but performs better. No one medium shouldn’t counter heavies without support/total dominating in micro. I’d really like incoming change as an soviet/OKW fanboy