USF is full of pretty useless abilities in doctrines. Can say, that USF have maybe 3-4 only useful doctrines - Pershing, Airborn, Priest and Calliope doctrines. All others are pretty trashy.
There a lot of obviously bad doctrinal abilties, like Elite Crews, which people asking to do something about since WFA started. Some off-map arty strikes are poor, M3 with engineers in mid game is also very cool and useful...
But that's for another topic - our problem is reconnaissance plane abilities. Why are they problem?
Simple - we have undoctrinal recon-planes in Major abilties. They are not perfect, but that's not hard to learn how they work and use it as undoctrinal sight.
So, if I have undoctrinal recon-planes... what for I need them again in doctrines? Wouldn't be better to place something more useful, instead of that ability in doctrines.
That's just ridiculous - imagine, that axis with undoctrinal Panthers will have in half of their doctrines (and a lot of USF doctrines have that recon-ability) same Panther-call-in without any bonuses, not like Panther-Commander. Just same Panther. I guess you will ask "shit, what for I need it in doctrines, if I have it already without any?! They just made half of my doctrines more useles, than they could be!!".
So... just change that recon-plane ability with something more useful. Let's make shitty USF doctrines more effective.
One "Major" problem - USF reconnaissance
18 Apr 2016, 05:04 AM
#1
Posts: 673
18 Apr 2016, 05:18 AM
#2
1 
Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
USF is full of pretty useless abilities in doctrines. Can say, that USF have maybe 3-4 only useful doctrines - Pershing, Airborn, Priest and Calliope doctrines. All others are pretty trashy.
The only bad USF commanders are recon and mechanized, The priest doctrine is meh but overshadowed by Calliope doctrines, and the rest are all fantastic. I don't know how you list the top commanders and leave out rifle company. Best doctrine.
Tobis "Complete Throw"
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
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Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
18 Apr 2016, 05:18 AM
#3
Posts: 247
The major ability has a tiny range for a recon ability, and it forces you to turn off your FRP to use. It's one of several useless abilities the major possesses.
18 Apr 2016, 05:20 AM
#4
Posts: 673
I don't know how you list the top commanders and leave out rifle company. Best doctrine.
Oh, yea true, that one is good also. Was better, before all "uniqe" doctrines went through "doctrinal socialism" and lost their specific abilities. Elite axis... Soviet industry... come baaacckk!!!
18 Apr 2016, 05:24 AM
#5
1 Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
Oh, yea true, that one is good also. Was better, before all "uniqe" doctrines went through "doctrinal socialism" and lost their specific abilities. Elite axis... Soviet industry... come baaacckk!!!
It's better this way, soviet industry is actually useful without crippling you now. And elite troops vet training was pure cancer for gameplay.
Tobis "Complete Throw"
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
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Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
18 Apr 2016, 06:00 AM
#6
Posts: 1891
Armor is the best USF doctrine...no, airborne...no, rifle!
Wait, they're all very good except for Recon, which blows
Wait, they're all very good except for Recon, which blows
The Fascisti Will Pay.
18 Apr 2016, 06:31 AM
#7
Posts: 673
Armor is the best USF doctrine...no, airborne...no, rifle!
Wait, they're all very good except for Recon, which blows
Armor? You mean with M10s and Dozers? Yea, then the best OKW doctrine is Feuersturm...
But seriously, point is not that "some doctrines good - some bad". It is actuall for all factions, even UKF got Royal Artillery...
Point is - doctrinal recon, which is pretty same to non-doctrinal makes doctrines worse, because it steals entire ability position, which could be used for something more useful.
18 Apr 2016, 06:32 AM
#8
2 
Posts: 1108
I swear, next post will be about axisBut now:
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18 Apr 2016, 06:35 AM
#9
Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1
Only problem with USF reco is for the same price any other faction get loitering reco instead one single strafe.
Major reco is actually pretty good in 1vs1, you don't necessary need FRP so you can use the major offensively.
Major reco is actually pretty good in 1vs1, you don't necessary need FRP so you can use the major offensively.
18 Apr 2016, 06:49 AM
#10
Posts: 571
It's better this way, soviet industry is actually useful without crippling you now. And elite troops vet training was pure cancer for gameplay.
Unfortunately the cancer has returned in the form of terminal cancer called "Advanced Cancer Regiment".
:/
(Sorry, had to say somethin
)
18 Apr 2016, 06:53 AM
#11
Posts: 673
I don't really understand what's wrong was with those doctrines. They were really uniqe and provided to you very specific way of playing. That was interesting, unusual... Right now those doctrines are same boring shit, as all others. I liked Elite doctrine, Industry was only doctrine, that could make T-34-76 spam real, Riflemans with veterancy were sweet...
So much good things they ruined for strange purpouse...
So much good things they ruined for strange purpouse...
18 Apr 2016, 11:15 AM
#12
Posts: 348
I don't really understand what's wrong was with those doctrines. They were really uniqe and provided to you very specific way of playing. That was interesting, unusual... Right now those doctrines are same boring shit, as all others. I liked Elite doctrine, Industry was only doctrine, that could make T-34-76 spam real, Riflemans with veterancy were sweet...
So much good things they ruined for strange purpouse...
They were changed because they were clear no trainers. Vet Riflemen with access to flame throwers while awesome and thematic were broken as hell. Elite Troops led to massive rage as you weren't punished for loosing veteran units late game, Soviet Industry allowed T-34 Spam, enough said. All these things while fun at low level games become infuriating at high level play - especially when money is on the line. So when the push towards E-Sports began then inevitably the broken doctrines had to be reworked. The thing is a bad doctrine doesn't affect E-Sports to much as they're ignored hence no change.
TL;DR: They broke high level play which is the group of players Relic listens to the most, for good and ill.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKlnjwzT1IruAZFb0EA-5pQMy channel where I watch games and get upset at them.
18 Apr 2016, 12:05 PM
#13
Posts: 673
They were changed because they were clear no trainers. Vet Riflemen with access to flame throwers while awesome and thematic were broken as hell. Elite Troops led to massive rage as you weren't punished for loosing veteran units late game, Soviet Industry allowed T-34 Spam, enough said.
That's offtop, but anyway:
Vet riflemans weren't broken at all. With vet 1 they only gained AT-grenade - very needed against those days kubels. Vet 2 or even 3 were pretty rare...
Elite troops worked nicely and weren't broken again. You making you unit vet, but making your Tier progression slower, so while you have entire army of vet-grenadeers - your enemy already making Shermans or T-34-76s. So, it was very nice balanced with high fuel cost of vet-ability.
And soviet industry allowed T-34 spam... is bad? No, seriously? Bro, it is not Panther, it is damn T-34-76. It only can be effective in numbers more than 3. So, that's a real reason, why T-34-76 become so bad right now. Before it was more or less useful with Industry. Without it - there are no way to spam enough T-34-76 for to outnumber your enemies.
So, I guess they should make doctrines back as they were - cool and uniqe.
18 Apr 2016, 12:54 PM
#14
Posts: 150
What? Major recon useless? LOL
What if I tell you major recon is probably THE only useful ability the major has?
What if I tell you major recon is probably THE only useful ability the major has?
18 Apr 2016, 12:59 PM
#15
Posts: 673
What? Major recon useless? LOL
What if I tell you major recon is probably THE only useful ability the major has?
Read it again. Major recon is cool, but what for they added pretty same recon in doctrines? If I have it already without any, maybe they will put in doctrines something really useful?
18 Apr 2016, 13:29 PM
#16
Posts: 348
That's offtop, but anyway:
Vet riflemans weren't broken at all. With vet 1 they only gained AT-grenade - very needed against those days kubels. Vet 2 or even 3 were pretty rare...
Elite troops worked nicely and weren't broken again. You making you unit vet, but making your Tier progression slower, so while you have entire army of vet-grenadeers - your enemy already making Shermans or T-34-76s. So, it was very nice balanced with high fuel cost of vet-ability.
And soviet industry allowed T-34 spam... is bad? No, seriously? Bro, it is not Panther, it is damn T-34-76. It only can be effective in numbers more than 3. So, that's a real reason, why T-34-76 become so bad right now. Before it was more or less useful with Industry. Without it - there are no way to spam enough T-34-76 for to outnumber your enemies.
So, I guess they should make doctrines back as they were - cool and uniqe.
They were broken, that was the consensus of Relic and top tier players, Period/Fullstop.
On topic though I do agree that the recon abilities are redundant but I don't see that changing any time soon. It doesn't affect balance in any way just like the weak commanders don't so relic pays them no attention. Unfortunate yes, I'd love to see them replaced with more useful abilities but it's definitely not likely.
All in all major Recon is good and most of the time the better option but sadly theyu felt USF needed more air recon so meh. I'd rather it be kept mediocre and not have forum warriors ranting about how a new ability hard counters their blobs and are therefore OP.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKlnjwzT1IruAZFb0EA-5pQMy channel where I watch games and get upset at them.
18 Apr 2016, 13:37 PM
#17
Posts: 658
Personally I would like to see Major Recon changed to Global as a Quality of Life Measure. You can still recon any part of the map with the ability. Even if Major is in base, by clicking on the ability and then clicking on the ground in the direction you want the plane to go, you can recon anywhere. By making the ability global it would simply be easier to use.
18 Apr 2016, 14:49 PM
#18
2 Posts: 62
If one of you forum warriors and balance "experts" would only dedicate half the time you waste on creating new balance threads and actually play & enjoy the game:
1) you would actually get something out of your time (playing / having fun / making own strats work)
2) you would not waste our time
3) this forum would be less flooded and more enjoyable
1) you would actually get something out of your time (playing / having fun / making own strats work)
2) you would not waste our time
3) this forum would be less flooded and more enjoyable
18 Apr 2016, 14:57 PM
#19
Posts: 673
If one of you forum warriors and balance "experts" would only dedicate half the time you waste on creating new balance threads and actually play & enjoy the game:
1) you would actually get something out of your time (playing / having fun / making own strats work)
2) you would not waste our time
3) this forum would be less flooded and more enjoyable
Ok, I got it, not try to tell us something about topic.
18 Apr 2016, 15:48 PM
#20
Posts: 1384
The major's recon plane is a pass, while the doctrinal ones are a loiter plane.
Recon planes through doctrines are also usually available before you have a major on the field.
They can also be called in anywhere, rather than just from the Major's location.
Recon planes through doctrines are also usually available before you have a major on the field.
They can also be called in anywhere, rather than just from the Major's location.
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