USSR's Defenses - Way to "heal" Soviets

Maybe you can give me some tips then? Because I find Ost to be one of the most if not the most micro intensive faction of all. Imho Soviets are a bit more forgiving because 6 man squads and weapon crews. Usually if I'm lazy with micro for one second my Grens and Mgs are dying left and right. But as I said maybe it's my fault.

I really don't understand why you post so much threads about Soviets being underpowered and full of design flaws! I mean seriously, they perform well and have tons of great tools for all situations.

If you're doing so good with axis and Brits why not stick with them because you don't seem to like how Soviets work.

in my humble opinion sov are quite strong atm, stronger than usf and oh for sure

All other factions are more or less universal. They can both in deffensive and offensive game. Look at UK - top defenses, nice infantry, badass tanks. Everything wihtout doctrines, even artillery (no matter that it is garbage). They are 100% universal faction! OKW was pretty same before with TOP tanks in game and dominating infantry, like Ubers. Even poor USF can play in deffensive and offencive. With problems but still.

Not really.
Each faction have different capabilities in offense and defense, USF have barely anything, soviets rely on defensive mines and demos, remaining three are self explanatory.
Soviets stand out, because they are doctrine reliant when it comes to basic infantry scaling, having useful infantry and having useful armor and that is the only major problem, stock equivalents are unusable.

USSR can ONLY in offencive gameplay and they are somehow not the best in that role, while they should be because... they lost entire gamestyle, so it should be compensated with more powerfull offencive. But it is not more powerfull, in some part's it is worst!

And there is nothing wrong with that. Soviets are supposed to be pressing, aggressive faction that forces opponents into specific units, soviets are really bad in reactive play, which defensive playstyles are reliant on.

Only problem with soviets is constant reliance on doctrines and call-ins because stock med armor and stock infantry other then maxims do not deliver at all.

So, let USSR be same universal faction as all others. USSR right now is kinda "white crow" in all factions line.

And its fine like this.
If you want to play more defensively, pick a faction designed for that.
Each army has something unique while missing something that is basic for another army.

The only army which is truly blessed with everything is OKW, but that doesn't mean the whole faction is imbalanced for that reason.

Maybe you can give me some tips then? Because I find Ost to be one of the most if not the most micro intensive faction of all. Imho Soviets are a bit more forgiving because 6 man squads and weapon crews. Usually if I'm lazy with micro for one second my Grens and Mgs are dying left and right. But as I said maybe it's my fault.

I really don't understand why you post so much threads about Soviets being underpowered and full of design flaws! I mean seriously, they perform well and have tons of great tools for all situations.

If you're doing so good with axis and Brits why not stick with them because you don't seem to like how Soviets work.

I don't know, 4-6 man squads never were a problem for me, cos they have really pretty same survivability. 2 additional man not always can save your unit. Of course it is annyoing to see, that UK's mortar mine wipes entire your squad or Katyusha's barrage, but for me it happens rare and game is pretty forginving even to Ostheers - 1 or even 2 men in squad usually survives after that. Insta wipe means only bad luck.

For example, I played once as OKW and I got QF 25 shell right into my retreated to FHQ blob. Directly in them. But no squad wipes - each squad just lost 2-4 men, I moved them asaide and reinforced. So, here is very strange system in game, I don't understand it. But, It always trying to save you squads from insta-wiping, no matter how much people there in squad, so +2 or -2 here is not that important. Maybe I understand it wrong, but that's what I saw.

But, 6 man squads can be actually insta-wiped too with Werfer or Stuka or, CAS bombing run or CAS Dive Bomb...

I don't know, what great tools you mean in USSR. Mines are maybe great, but they are not uniqe for USSR, OKW have same mines for very strange reasons. USSR really doesn't have something specific good in stock or even in doctrines. I can only say that stock Katyusha is badass, but that's all... Katyusha is good, SU-76 is more or less good, Guards would be good, if they would be T1 unit, instead of Penals. All others - worse than their analogs in other factions.

And yea - best artillery in game with ML-20 and B-4. But... no B-4 is piece of shit.

Soviets stand out, because they are doctrine reliant when it comes to basic infantry scaling, having useful infantry and having useful armor and that is the only major problem, stock equivalents are unusable..

I wouldn't say that, I think core Soviets can be played very well. Radio Intercept doctrines like NKVD complement this very well, allowing you to have absurdly good awareness of what your opponent is doing.

It's great for training fundamental Soviet play and then add the doctrinal stuff in on top of it after you master it.

I don't know, 4-6 man squads never were a problem for me, cos they have really pretty same survivability. 2 additional man not always can save your unit. Of course it is annyoing to see, that UK's mortar mine wipes entire your squad or Katyusha's barrage, but for me it happens rare and game is pretty forginving even to Ostheers - 1 or even 2 men in squad usually survives after that. Insta wipe means only bad luck.

For example, I played once as OKW and I got QF 25 shell right into my retreated to FHQ blob. Directly in them. But no squad wipes - each squad just lost 2-4 men, I moved them asaide and reinforced. So, here is very strange system in game, I don't understand it. But, It always trying to save you squads from insta-wiping, no matter how much people there in squad, so +2 or -2 here is not that important. Maybe I understand it wrong, but that's what I saw.

But, 6 man squads can be actually insta-wiped too with Werfer or Stuka or, CAS bombing run or CAS Dive Bomb...

I don't know, what great tools you mean in USSR. Mines are maybe great, but they are not uniqe for USSR, OKW have same mines for very strange reasons. USSR really doesn't have something specific good in stock or even in doctrines. I can only say that stock Katyusha is badass, but that's all... Katyusha is good, SU-76 is more or less good, Guards would be good, if they would be T1 unit, instead of Penals. All others - worse than their analogs in other factions.

And yea - best artillery in game with ML-20 and B-4. But... no B-4 is piece of shit.

Strange that your game experience differs so greatly from mine. Grens, Panzergrenadiers and Pios get wiped by mines, Soviet heavy mortar, ZIS barrage, ISU, IS2 shell and so on. Frequently btw.

On the other hand killing a soviet maxim or mortar is a pain, really. They're so durable.

Fine, unique tools for Soviets: Shocks, heavy mortar, maxim, bombard ability on tank destroyers and anti tank guns, T 70 which is awesome against infantry and can take a punch (though not a big one), partisans (spawning from buildings, cloak, panzerschreck and mines! Hell what an awsome combination!), radio intercept, very versatile Cons (though with bad scaling but still with a lot of uses), etc.! Really there are some great replays and casts out there where you can see the many possibilities Soviets offer. They really have a lot of great tools!

I wouldn't say that, I think core Soviets can be played very well. Radio Intercept doctrines like NKVD complement this very well, allowing you to have absurdly good awareness of what your opponent is doing.

It's great for training fundamental Soviet play and then add the doctrinal stuff in on top of it after you master it.

Well, everything works up until certain rank. If your rank is better then 300, then you pretty much have to go full meta as penals, cons(without maxims) and 34/76 will be the fastest ways to lose.

Arguably, cons with ppsh are fine, but you need vet3 to see that.

Fine, unique tools for Soviets: Shocks, heavy mortar, maxim, bombard ability on tank destroyers and anti tank guns, T 70 which is awesome against infantry and can take a punch (though not a big one), partisans (spawning from buildings, cloak, panzerschreck and mines! Hell what an awsome combination!), radio intercept, very versatile Cons (though with bad scaling but still with a lot of uses), etc.! Really there are some great replays and casts out there where you can see the many possibilities Soviets offer. They really have a lot of great tools!

Shocks are not that uniqe. Game is full of such close-combat anti-infantry squads, like Rangers or Commandos. They are not that survivable, but survivability of shocks is not that awesome too. Obers are still better as Anti-infantry soldiers.

Heavy mortar is also not that uniqe. US Pack Howitzers and LeIGs works pretty same - long range, nice damage and also penetrates vechicles. Lesser AoE maybe, but still - penetrates vechicles. And don't forget about heavy mortrars in mortar emplacement.

Maxim is uniqe, but it's bad HMG (personal opinion). If there would be DShK in stock, then I would be soooo happy.

Bombard ability is uniqe, but for AT it costs 60 ammo! Not always worth it. And for SU-76 it is awesome, but very random. I prefer more armored StuG G, without barrages, but with HP and armor.

T-70 is not that uniqe, lol. Luchs is also nicely dealing with infantry, specially soviet, which doesn't have infantry-AT, like PTRS in stock. T-70 can be destroyed with 3 schrecks hit. Or 222 cars. And don't forget about Stuart. That one at least can be usefull as support, stunning enemy tanks. Valentine sucks, we all admit it.

Partisans are only doctrinal. And those doctrines themselvs are not that awesome. I prefer to have T-34-85 or IS-2 instead of bunch of infantry. More usefull in late, when axis becomes really dangerous.

Radio intercept is uniqe, but it doesn't win battles. Ok, you know that enemy got Panther or King Tiger, what next? You still don't have BS-3 or SU-100 for to deal with them. ISU-152 not always penetrates Panther, for example, lol.

Cons are not "versatile". Riflemans are, Tommyrifles are. But not cons. Those 2 can get LMGs, AT guns, Tommies can be upgraded with healing+survivability or arty+vision. That's real versatily. Cons can only have their poor rifles as weapons, unless you take some "shitty" doctrines with PPSH or PTRS. I don't get it - all factions getting weapons without doctrines and only USSR only with. Really nice for "offencive-only" faction, thank you, Relic...

So you want all the cool stuff in Soviet faction of I get you right?
IS2 with King Tiger armor, Shocks with long range of Obers yet same short range performance, SUs with Stug armor, stock guards in T0 and Cons with Panzerschreck and Stg44s? Does that sound like a Soviet faction you'd like to play?

Don't you think that would take away the uniqueness Soviets have atm (that you seem to not recognize)?

Sorry to repeat myself here but if you think all other factions are cooler, why not play those? What's it that lets you play Soviets although you clearly don't like them?

So you want all the cool stuff in Soviet faction of I get you right?
IS2 with King Tiger armor, Shocks with long range of Obers yet same short range performance, SUs with Stug armor, stock guards in T0 and Cons with Panzerschreck and Stg44s? Does that sound like a Soviet faction you'd like to play?

Don't you think that would take away the uniqueness Soviets have atm (that you seem to not recognize)?

Sorry to repeat myself here but if you think all other factions are cooler, why not play those? What's it that lets you play Soviets although you clearly don't like them?

Well, I want not so much But, I like idea of IS with KT armor and Ober-version of Shocks with modern PPS-42/43 SMGs or even AVT-40 Rifles. SU with Stug armor is too much, as guards in T0. Cons with global DP-28 or SVT-40 upgrades would be good also. And Penals with PTRS upgrades.

Anyway, I think all assault-offencive units of USSR (which is designed to be ONLY offensive, look at Relic scheme, don't know where to find it, sorry) should be very powerfull, for to justify status of offencive only faction of USSR. No defeses for USSR - then give us super-offenses!

Uniqueness of Soviets today is that they are hardly "doctrinal addicted" faction with pretty bad stock armory and not "TEH BEST" doctrinal units. It make them uniqe, but not balanced, cos they are weaker.

And I sometimes play as other factions, Im not "USSR-only" player. But still, USSR makes me worry more, than any other factions, which also have serious problems. For expample, I won't stop propagande, that OKW need howitzers! And they should put it instead of FlamenHetzer in Feuersturm doctrine. Hummel or sFH 18. OKW just hardly suffering from all possible enemy artillery and just can't counterbattery it, that's pretty strange.

But, that's for another topic.

Last time I checked Soviets had pretty good TDs and T34/85 which is also pretty reliable. So "bad" is not what I'd call em. I'm against any balance changes that makes anything "super"! Ost is supposed to be defensive and a late game faction but struggles to hold ground against US or Brits. Brits are the closest to a super faction imo with strong tanks and emplacements and that causes quite some rage in the community.

I still think Soviets are fine (except some small tweaks here and there. Penal buff and Maxim nerf for example). Otherwise they are a well rounded faction with good to excellent performance in attacking and defending. At least that is what if seen in ESL, casts and from my own experience with the game (though I'm not a good player and have only 200 h of game time.)

Last time I checked Soviets had pretty good TDs and T34/85 which is also pretty reliable. So "bad" is not what I'd call em. I'm against any balance changes that makes anything "super"! Ost is supposed to be defensive and a late game faction but struggles to hold ground against US or Brits. Brits are the closest to a super faction imo with strong tanks and emplacements and that causes quite some rage in the community.

I still think Soviets are fine (except some small tweaks here and there. Penal buff and Maxim nerf for example). Otherwise they are a well rounded faction with good to excellent performance in attacking and defending. At least that is what if seen in ESL, casts and from my own experience with the game (though I'm not a good player and have only 200 h of game time.)

Last time I cheked Panther, Jagdtiger and Firefly were not soviet, so they may be have "pretty good" TDs, but definitely not best. That's a joke to see, that ZiS-3 (only soviet AT gun) 5 times can't penetrate Panthers armor, when Panther needs only 1 shot to become dead and has destroyed engine... That's about "pretty good" TDs.

T-34-85 is veeery reliable! But it should be stock in T4, not doctrinal. Make it so and it will be soooo good and right!

And I don't agree that they are fine. Even ESL games won't convince me in that.

Mobile units, many of which are relatively cheap for their class (i.e t-34/76 only 300/80) which allows them to overwhelm their opponent through sheer numbers. They also have a ton of flexibility, with conscripts able to merge into other squads to keep them in the fight longer. They can also recrew weapons and vehicles and stay in the field.

I would love to see some replays where a SU player overwhelming his opponent (a decent opponent, same level than SU player at least) with sheer numbers....

could you link some of them.....coz really tired to hear about t34 cheap price...but all I can see is that this unit sucks hard, at any level of play.

Maybe as I´m a noob coh2 player, I´m plain wrong, and then, I would love to check two or three replays where this tactic works....please, don´t send me replays where game is won long before SU player starts fielding those t34.

Last time I checked Soviets had pretty good TDs and T34/85 which is also pretty reliable. So "bad" is not what I'd call em. I'm against any balance changes that makes anything "super"! Ost is supposed to be defensive and a late game faction but struggles to hold ground against US or Brits. Brits are the closest to a super faction imo with strong tanks and emplacements and that causes quite some rage in the community.

I still think Soviets are fine (except some small tweaks here and there. Penal buff and Maxim nerf for example). Otherwise they are a well rounded faction with good to excellent performance in attacking and defending. At least that is what if seen in ESL, casts and from my own experience with the game (though I'm not a good player and have only 200 h of game time.)

how is not OSTHER a good defensive faction??? it has all the tools needed to perform in a defensive way: best deffensive machine gun, mainline infantery can build bunkers, mainline infantery with snare (snare that don´t need side tech btw), cheap engineers than can plant several kind of mines from the get go, half track to reinforce infantery in same tier than ATGUN....


How OST is not a late game faction??? (panther, brumbar, tiger I, peewerfer are OSTHEER toys, not USF toys) USF is the best sample of non-late game faction.

you are mixing concepts I think.....deffensive <> early game faction. That is why OSTHEER is supposed to suffer in the early game, and it becomes more powerfull in the end of the match.

I would love to see some replays where a SU player overwhelming his opponent (a decent opponent, same level than SU player at least) with sheer numbers....

could you link some of them.....coz really tired to hear about t34 cheap price...but all I can see is that this unit sucks hard, at any level of play.

Maybe as I´m a noob coh2 player, I´m plain wrong, and then, I would love to check two or three replays where this tactic works....please, don´t send me replays where game is won long before SU player starts fielding those t34.

I used T-34-76 before, when it was in T3 and Soviet Industry was normal, not like it is today. With that doctrine I could fast spam 5-6 T-34 and faceroll. And all loses I could fast replace, cos fuel income was bigger and producing time lower.

That was only way that I found how to use T-34-76 in CoH 2. Only one since very start of game. Now it doesn't work, T-34 in T4 and Soviet Industry turned into shitty doctrine.

Last time I cheked Panther, Jagdtiger and Firefly were not soviet, so they may be have "pretty good" TDs, but definitely not best. That's a joke to see, that ZiS-3 (only soviet AT gun) 5 times can't penetrate Panthers armor, when Panther needs only 1 shot to become dead and has destroyed engine... That's about "pretty good" TDs.

T-34-85 is veeery reliable! But it should be stock in T4, not doctrinal. Make it so and it will be soooo good and right!

And I don't agree that they are fine. Even ESL games won't convince me in that.

• IS-2 has the armour of a KT
  
• Shocks have body armor and at short range they perform just as good as obers do at long range (except due to the larger squad size shocks not get wiped out with a single shell)
  
• SU-85 can scope for itself by default, and with veterancy its firing speed will be EPIC
  
• ZiS and SU76 barrage can be a nightmare for stationary support units
  
• Maxim spam is also a nightmare for anybody. People cry about OKW fire nade range, while OKW has no smoke nade, no mortar smoke, no ooorah ability.
  
  To answer one of your previous questions, i would remove the point capture ability of the maxim as a first step to fix maxim spam.
  
  All in all, i dont think soviets are in need of such defensive structures. They not meant to be the same as ostheer... being unable to build bunkers is the same as OST is unable to have FHQ. Sovets got all the tool they need against stationary units, while OST was always better in stationary gameplay. Its simple asymmetric balance imo..

I used T-34-76 before, when it was in T3 and Soviet Industry was normal, not like it is today. With that doctrine I could fast spam 5-6 T-34 and faceroll. And all loses I could fast replace, cos fuel income was bigger and producing time lower.

That was only way that I found how to use T-34-76 in CoH 2. Only one since very start of game. Now it doesn't work, T-34 in T4 and Soviet Industry turned into shitty doctrine.

yeah, that is why I was asking for replays....I think saying that SU can win games by spamming cheap T34-76 is just an invalid argument....I don´t think ESL finals are won by using t34-76 to be honest, but I´m a noob, so if some replays show me how to use properly t34-76, then maybe, I can realice I was using SU faction the wrong way.

• Shocks have body armor and at short range they perform just as good as obers do at long range (except due to the larger squad size shocks not get wiped out with a single shell)
  

except obers can sit on green cover and snipe enemys while they try to close the gap.....

Excuse my bad english....

except obers can sit on green cover and snipe enemys while they try to close the gap.....

Excuse my bad english....

Yes, close range is actually "closer" than long range. But thats why shock have larger squadsize and body armor, while Obers must be upgraded with weapons to became viable. Again: i see no problem here..

Yes, close range is actually "closer" than long range. But thats why shock have larger squadsize and body armor, while Obers must be upgraded with weapons to became viable. Again: i see no problem here..

yeah mate, different kind of squads performing at different ranges....not an issue....

but at least in my opinion, in this game, long range squads are better than CQC squad 99 out of 100 situations....so, I think any SU player would be more than happy if they get obers instead of shocks....but this is just opinion...

but yes, you are right, no problem with this imho.

Regards,

Ok, Commissar, exactly what changes do you want to see? List them all and why they would make sense.

Ok, Commissar, exactly what changes do you want to see? List them all and why they would make sense.

This is a trick question, right?