Login

russian armor

current state of wermacht g43?

7 Apr 2016, 21:08 PM
#21
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2016, 19:04 PMMyself


No to make PG more cost affective and G43 on them a better option....

PGs are cost-effective already, and I'd prefer keeping a good AI unit without a necessary upgrade in their repertoire as is.



On PG, it's a downgrade in all situations. On Grens, it's an upgrade in all situations.

So are LMG42s though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
7 Apr 2016, 21:22 PM
#22
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 823 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2016, 21:08 PMVuther




So are LMG42s though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


because they fire on the move, right? G43's on grens are still worth it imo, gives you a bit more of a mobile combat than the lmg42
7 Apr 2016, 21:47 PM
#23
avatar of HerpmanTheGermman

Posts: 19

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2016, 20:21 PMTobis

No, it's not.

http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/grenadier_kar_98k_rifle_mp

http://www.coh2-stats.com/small_arms/jaeger_g43_rifle_mp

Better at every range.


It says "Patch version: 23 June 2015", not sure if that refers to the game or something related to their website, but is coh2-stats even up to date anymore?
7 Apr 2016, 21:54 PM
#24
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4



It says "Patch version: 23 June 2015", not sure if that refers to the game or something related to their website, but is coh2-stats even up to date anymore?

No, it's outdated. But they haven't changed gren kar98s or g43s since then, so it's accurate. Used this site because the graphs are a little better than the updated site, you can check that they are the same if you want.
7 Apr 2016, 22:02 PM
#25
avatar of HerpmanTheGermman

Posts: 19

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2016, 21:54 PMTobis

No, it's outdated. But they haven't changed gren kar98s or g43s since then, so it's accurate. Used this site because the graphs are a little better than the updated site, you can check that they are the same if you want.


That's too bad, I only knew of this one. Which alternative site are you using instead?
7 Apr 2016, 22:28 PM
#26
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2016, 21:22 PMd0ggY


because they fire on the move, right? G43's on grens are still worth it imo, gives you a bit more of a mobile combat than the lmg42

They also over triple max-range DPS.

I like G43s just fine myself, but it's kinda hard to discount why I'm still just seeing LMG42s everywhere.
7 Apr 2016, 22:33 PM
#27
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 823 | Subs: 3

cuz lmg's where the way to go since forever, and g43's need you to change playstyle a bit
7 Apr 2016, 22:54 PM
#28
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2016, 22:33 PMd0ggY
cuz lmg's where the way to go since forever, and g43's need you to change playstyle a bit

Pretty much.
Plus the fact that only a single G43 doc can be considered meta, lightning war.
Good thing is, the doctrine is amazing and provides everything needed.
7 Apr 2016, 23:26 PM
#29
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4



That's too bad, I only knew of this one. Which alternative site are you using instead?

http://www.stat.coh2.hu/

It's better in some ways, but still is a bit rough.

There is also this DPS sheet someone on here was working on.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOYMDi_XR7rILsk6HbAZqGihsk22t-45C_6NbQEP-m0/edit#gid=1675306803

8 Apr 2016, 00:05 AM
#30
avatar of Myself

Posts: 677

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Apr 2016, 21:08 PMVuther

PGs are cost-effective already, and I'd prefer keeping a good AI unit without a necessary upgrade in their repertoire as is.

Guess it a matter of preference, I would rather have them cheaper with a weapon upgrade...Another idea would be to allow Pioneer upgrade with g43 (mutally exclusive with flamers/swippers) instead of PGs...
9 Apr 2016, 00:59 AM
#31
avatar of Angrade (Ægion)
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 766 | Subs: 2

Why, do people think G43's are bad on Panzergrenadiers? They increase mid and almost double long range damage, and has better move accuracy. You are able to move in closer while still dishing out a large amount of damage. Personally, I have had a G43 PG beat two Rifles at long range, all in light cover.

STG 44 close :15.78
STG 44 Far: 1.86

G43 close: 14.73
G43: 3.26

Grenadier's MG 42 Close: 7.66
Far: 7.19

With the 2 G43s on PG you are almost doing as much damage as grenadier with a mg 42. Not only G43s are cheaper they can move and shoot, so in my opinion they are better than mg 42.

Source:
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/squad.php?filename=panzer_grenadier_squad_mp
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/squad.php?filename=grenadier_squad_mp
9 Apr 2016, 01:18 AM
#32
avatar of miragefla
Developer Relic Badge

Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13

And the DPS charts from Relic's attribute editor states that these things are hardly more than a slight improvement/side-grade on a unit with very good weapons. The only place where the G43 performs more effectively is the 30-35 mark.

While they do have different damage models as the StG is an automatic with less damage per round and has burst while the G43 is single shot with less penalties while moving (no burst to be reduced), it's honestly not worth it in most causes. You generally don't want PGs to be fighting at max to begin with as that's what your Grenadiers will generally be doing along with the 42. You want those assault rifles to deal with approaching infantry who are getting into the mid-short range where most Ostheer units suffer.


Weapons with ranges set to: 0/10/15/20/25/30/35

PG G43: 12.8/9.6/6.87/5.22/4.2/3.5/3.0

PG StG 44: 15.35/12.8/10.1/7.69/5.4/3.38/1.44
9 Apr 2016, 01:24 AM
#33
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

part of the problem is the fact that the panzergrenadier are already using assault rifles. Semi-auto rifle realistically isn't going to be an improvement.
9 Apr 2016, 01:35 AM
#34
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

part of the problem is the fact that the panzergrenadier are already using assault rifles. Semi-auto rifle realistically isn't going to be an improvement.

I personally think it could work if the DPS of the G43s were boosted a bit (duh) and they got bonus sight like PFs. Jaeger Infantry Doctrine could get a pretty neat scout combo with Ambush Camouflage.

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Apr 2016, 00:05 AMMyself

Guess it a matter of preference, I would rather have them cheaper with a weapon upgrade...Another idea would be to allow Pioneer upgrade with g43 (mutally exclusive with flamers/swippers) instead of PGs...

Actually a pretty cool idea, the moving accuracy of the G43s could go very well with Pios' sight to counter HMGs.
9 Apr 2016, 01:38 AM
#35
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384

And the DPS charts from Relic's attribute editor states that these things are hardly more than a slight improvement/side-grade on a unit with very good weapons. The only place where the G43 performs more effectively is the 30-35 mark.


What about on the move?

The stg44 has much shorter bursts when moving, which will significantly reduce damageoutput.
9 Apr 2016, 01:40 AM
#36
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1



What about on the move?

The stg44 has much shorter bursts when moving, which will significantly reduce damageoutput.

Cooldown's also much lower too though which leads me to guess those two stats are more for visual flavour for burst-firing weapons on the move.

Only an assumption, though.
9 Apr 2016, 14:15 PM
#37
9 Apr 2016, 19:44 PM
#38
avatar of BlickWinkel

Posts: 49

I don't find them very useful, even though I have a soft spot for them and attempt to use them from time to time.
One, long range weapons, so mg42, are superior for a variety of reasons in coh, two, the weapon is really not that great.
And then, instead of fighting allied infantry at long range which is axis comfort zone, you get a weapon which is effective at ranges where grens have no staying power and will simply be destroyed by anything but cons. The way I see it you're turning your grens into makeshift riflemen, except infinitely worse. Close range is not the place for a fragile 4 man squad, and I think that by choosing this upgrade you're giving up their strong suit.
9 Apr 2016, 19:57 PM
#39
avatar of Dullahan

Posts: 1384

I don't find them very useful, even though I have a soft spot for them and attempt to use them from time to time.
One, long range weapons, so mg42, are superior for a variety of reasons in coh, two, the weapon is really not that great.
And then, instead of fighting allied infantry at long range which is axis comfort zone, you get a weapon which is effective at ranges where grens have no staying power and will simply be destroyed by anything but cons. The way I see it you're turning your grens into makeshift riflemen, except infinitely worse. Close range is not the place for a fragile 4 man squad, and I think that by choosing this upgrade you're giving up their strong suit.


It's a great medium range upgrade.

Pairs well with suppression too because you'll obliterate them up close and they can't fight back.

9 Apr 2016, 22:16 PM
#40
avatar of timujin.il

Posts: 107

1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag cblanco ★
  • The British Forces flag 보드카 중대
  • Oberkommando West flag VonManteuffel
  • Ostheer flag Heartless Jäger
uploaded by XXxxHeartlessxxXX

Board Info

268 users are online: 268 guests
0 post in the last 24h
15 posts in the last week
37 posts in the last month
Registered members: 48922
Welcome our newest member, atomsincdigital
Most online: 2043 users on 29 Oct 2023, 01:04 AM