Tiger vs Pershing

So... to all that has been wondering, there seems to be a misconception about the Pershing's vet and stats. Doing some math, it's clear that the Tiger has better overall stats and vet.

Tiger
HP: 1040
Armor: 300

Penetration: 220
Reload: 5.13
Cooldown: 0.13
Max range: 45 + 5
*Passive crew shock ability (immobilizes vehicles)

Pershing
HP: 800
Armor: 300

Penetration: 240
Reload: 6.63
Cooldown: 1.13
Max range: 45 (bugged, should be set to 50)

What cooldown means for tanks:

To simplify it, it basically just tacks on extra permanent reload time that cannot be reduced by reload speed vet. Since tanks reload after every shot, cooldown modifiers are applied after every reload, and thus increasing reload time. This means, the Pershing actually has a reload speed of 7.76 seconds (6.63 + 1.13). The Tiger has a reload speed of 5.26 seconds. This means the Tiger effectively shoots 47% faster than a Pershing, making it more destructive.

Counting vet3, the Tiger gains a -30% reload speed. This changes the reload speed of the Tiger to 3.721 seconds per shot. The Pershing's -50% reload speed at vet3 will reduce it's total reload speed to 4.445 seconds. This narrows down the differences between the Tiger and Pershing a slight bit, but the Tiger still shoots 20% faster than the Pershing when both tanks are at vet3.

So what does that mean? It makes the Tiger a better tank in general. The Tiger has more range and shoots more frequently than the Pershing, while having high enough HP/armor to withstand and trade shells with other enemy tanks. It also has less scatter at vet2, making it better at hitting infantry more consistently.

Although the Pershing is slightly more accurate than the Tiger and has slightly better AoE, it shoots much slower and has higher scatter; making the tank miss infantry more often. The only benefits the Pershing has over the Tiger is being a slight bit faster and a bit more accurate on the move while shooting.

As far as I've tested it, the accuracy vet really doesn't do too much for the tanks main cannons since as long as the shells collide with other objects or ground, it doesn't matter. The Panther is as accurate as the Tiger, but the differences between them are the AoE and scatter. This seems to make sense because otherwise, infantry with extremely high received accuracy modifiers like vet3 Riflemen wouldn't be able to get hit by a Tiger, yet the Tiger is still able to land squad wipes on infantry regardless of received accuracy. Scatter and AoE matters more vs infantry than accuracy. Other than that; accuracy benefits the coaxial and machine guns more so than anything else. Of course, anybody can try to prove me wrong with stats and other testing, but as far as I've tested it, this seems to be the case.

You know that Pershing is a medium tank and Tiger is a heavy tank? They are not supposed to play the same role. If you are using your Pershing against Tiger you are doing something wrong.

Tried testing Vet 3 Pershing vs vet 3 Tiger in cheatcommands mod yesterday,and they both killed each other,and I didn't even realize that range affects penetration

And riflemen have better stats and vet and better upgrades than grens?


(yes riflemen are 40mp more expensive to buy but they bleed the enemy these 40mp pretty fast, you killed a gren model while losing none? Gz you just anhilated already 30mp)

You know that Pershing is a medium tank and Tiger is a heavy tank? They are not supposed to play the same role. If you are using your Pershing against Tiger you are doing something wrong.

Both cost the same and were intended for roughly the same roles.

You know that Pershing is a medium tank and Tiger is a heavy tank? They are not supposed to play the same role. If you are using your Pershing against Tiger you are doing something wrong.

The Panther is a medium tank and beats heavy tanks. I dunno what you're trying to argue here.

The Panther is a medium tank and beats heavy tanks. I dunno what you're trying to argue here.

I'd love to see Panther soloing IS

I'd love to see Panther soloing IS

One of the main issues with the IS is that due to its poor accuracy a panther can handily beat it with a bit of good rng or micro.

Thanks for the comparison, but I must ask OP the purpose of this thread, since here is no clear indication that the discrepancy of these two units constitute a problem.

Its not a medium tank gents

"It was designated a heavy tank"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M26_Pershing

Its not a medium tank gents

"It was designated a heavy tank"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M26_Pershing

I've heard it was called "heavy tank" to encourage Americans during fights. They were facing Tigers and other heavy stuff and to keep their morale high the highest command of US army ordered to call Pershing heavy tank.

But back to topic:
I doubt there's misconception about Pershing. It may seem a weaker tank (despite roughly the same cost what @Grim reminded), but I think you need to look at what this tank is supposed to do and what kind of support it has. It is no wunderwaffe (so isn't Tiger), it won't solo all your enemies. It's intended role is AI and I think it does great against infantry. I even fear Pershing more than Tiger due to smaller squad sizes of Axis.

EDIT: Pershing seems a bit easier to rank up, does anyone know exp requirements for both tanks?

Pershing has double tap shots, so Pershing > Tiger

To clarify for those who don't know, Pershing has ammo ability to shoot another shot really fast with better penetration. Don't think this ability shot even affects for the timer on reload for it's normal shot.

Pershing has double tap shots, so Pershing > Tiger

To clarify for those who don't know, Pershing has ammo ability to shoot another shot really fast with better penetration. Don't think this ability shot even affects for the timer on reload for it's normal shot.

Yeh, and the ability also causes you to lose 90 munitions on any vehicles that just leaves the Pershings range lol.

The Tiger has a passive ability that costs nothing and stuns other tanks for a few secs. That's a hell of a lot better than a 90 munitions ability that lets you shoot 1 extra time that misses on anything that is moving even a slight bit lol.

It's not as good as you hype it out to be. Everyone knows the ability lets you double shot, but that hardly comes in handy when it's 90 munitions, has a ridiculously long cooldown and misses the majority of the time.

I'd love to see Panther soloing IS

k

You know that Pershing is a medium tank and Tiger is a heavy tank? They are not supposed to play the same role. If you are using your Pershing against Tiger you are doing something wrong.

''medium tank'' that is limited and come as late as a tiger and costs the same

pershing should be a medium tank (unlimited like all others) and have its effectiveness against infantry nerfed.

k

Holy shit that scattering shell that goes fucking behind it

Yeh, and the ability also causes you to lose 90 munitions on any vehicles that just leaves the Pershings range lol.

The Tiger has a passive ability that costs nothing and stuns other tanks for a few secs. That's a hell of a lot better than a 90 munitions ability that lets you shoot 1 extra time that misses on anything that is moving even a slight bit lol.

It's not as good as you hype it out to be. Everyone knows the ability lets you double shot, but that hardly comes in handy when it's 90 munitions, has a ridiculously long cooldown and misses the majority of the time.



k

HVAP is insane, its 240 damage (50% more than the tiger or pershings regular shots) and ALWAYS pens. Its also super easy to hit on enemy mediums and heavies because it only takes about 1 second to shoot. You just need to learn the delay and to lead the target a bit. Its also allows for gibbing lighter vehicles like luchss/puma and quite often people leave mediums like stugs/panzers low enough to get double tapped because they forget about the ability. The problem is it gets fucked (like tulips) by elevation changes, but if you are shooting roughly on the flat or downhill, its an awesome ability. Quite frankly late game you always have munitions for HVAP if you want to play around it with some to spare.

The pershing is also a huge squad wipe threat to axis (slightly better aoe than tiger and chasing down squads with 75% moving accuracy) and axis smaller squads in general.

Furthermore in a tiger vs pershing duel the Pershing pens the tiger 9% more often which helps reduce the firing time discrepancy (albeit doesn't make up for it).

The Pershing seems to vet up super fast (probably because it kills so much but it may also have lower vet requirements (?)) so you almost always get to vet 3 before the tiger in my experience which gives it a significant temporary edge. Also as US you should have more fuel because of more map control because of better early game so can often get the pershing out before the ost can call a tiger.

Basically HVAP transforms the Pershing into something highly threatening to tanks (as well as retaining potent AI ability in general). Without HVAP I think the Pershing would be very meh for its cost but with it I think its awesome. Take for example the panther, a total nightmare for USF armour in general. If you duel a panther and happen to pen the first shot, then just double tap and the panther has lost HALF its hitpoints! Its slow firing and now has to back right away or risk dying whilst the pershing is on 83% HP with a faster RoF assuming the panther also penned.

I'm waffling a lot but basically HVAP allows you shut down enemy tank pushes. 1 Pen + HVAP and most tanks have to back right off and have downtime for repairs.

I'm not saying the tiger isn't a great tank, but I really think, especially backed by USFs general roster, the Pershing is fantastic and is the only doctrine that gives USF a properly threatening late game (especially in 1v1s).

Can we please tack on the Acceleration/ Deceleration, speed, target size, and turret traverse? Thanks

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//monthly_06_2009/post-6492-1245211601.jpg

The cover of the M26 (T26E3 as it was designated during ww2) manual from ww2.

It is a heavy tank since the game is set in ww2 and performance compared to real life wise it should wipe the floor with the Tiger I in everyway besides mobility.

Ingame i think they should be atleast semi mirrored.

Can we please tack on the Acceleration/ Deceleration, speed, target size, and turret traverse? Thanks

The Pershing is substantially faster (6 vs 4.7) substantially better acceleration (2 vs 1.5) and MASSIVELY better deceleration (4 vs 1.8).

The pershing gains +30% accel/decel on vet 1 whereas the tiger gains +20% speed +20% accel/decel on vet 3.

This leaves the tiger at vet 3 slower than the pershing (5.64) and with massively worse accel/decel. The pershing also gains its added nimbleness far earlier than the tiger.

All in all the Pershing is substantially more mobile than the tiger.

HVAP is insane, its 240 damage (50% more than the tiger or pershings regular shots) and ALWAYS pens. Its also super easy to hit on enemy mediums and heavies because it only takes about 1 second to shoot. You just need to learn the delay and to lead the target a bit. Its also allows for gibbing lighter vehicles like luchss/puma and quite often people leave mediums like stugs/panzers low enough to get double tapped because they forget about the ability. The problem is it gets fucked (like tulips) by elevation changes, but if you are shooting roughly on the flat or downhill, its an awesome ability. Quite frankly late game you always have munitions for HVAP if you want to play around it with some to spare.

The pershing is also a huge squad wipe threat to axis (slightly better aoe than tiger and chasing down squads with 75% moving accuracy) and axis smaller squads in general.

Furthermore in a tiger vs pershing duel the Pershing pens the tiger 9% more often which helps reduce the firing time discrepancy (albeit doesn't make up for it).

The Pershing seems to vet up super fast (probably because it kills so much but it may also have lower vet requirements (?)) so you almost always get to vet 3 before the tiger in my experience which gives it a significant temporary edge. Also as US you should have more fuel because of more map control because of better early game so can often get the pershing out before the ost can call a tiger.

Basically HVAP transforms the Pershing into something highly threatening to tanks (as well as retaining potent AI ability in general). Without HVAP I think the Pershing would be very meh for its cost but with it I think its awesome. Take for example the panther, a total nightmare for USF armour in general. If you duel a panther and happen to pen the first shot, then just double tap and the panther has lost HALF its hitpoints! Its slow firing and now has to back right away or risk dying whilst the pershing is on 83% HP with a faster RoF assuming the panther also penned.

I'm waffling a lot but basically HVAP allows you shut down enemy tank pushes. 1 Pen + HVAP and most tanks have to back right off and have downtime for repairs.

I'm not saying the tiger isn't a great tank, but I really think, especially backed by USFs general roster, the Pershing is fantastic and is the only doctrine that gives USF a properly threatening late game (especially in 1v1s).

Same problem as the Firefly, you need to invest tons of ammo in the tank to make it perform at 100% of his AT Capability which is flat-BS