M1931 B-4 Howitzer - Let's do something about it!

I remember how B4 was able to blow up whole armies and 1 shot vet 4 KT at vet 3 with precision strike at okw base (). Good old times.

I don't think ostheerokw wants this back.

I think it still be good enough for just manpower price. KV-1 need to be looked at more than B4.

Yea, and now units, like JT shooting my IS-2 and ISU with 3 non-precison strikes, and everything is fine. And Dive Bombs killing all my infantry by 1 shot. And Stukas destryoing my weapon crews with weapons themselvs. And what Zeroing artillery does with my whole armies... you can't even imagine. Hope you get a point.

Axis is full of wipe-type units and abilities. So, why axis refuses to us to have such units too? And B-4 with P.S. will not be such deadly, as Dive Bomb strike now - lesser AoE. If you want - make lesser damage, for to save poor axis tanks from insta dying, but B-4 really needs P.S. to become powerfull again, as it should be.

By the way, with Sturmtiger killing everything from fog of war, B4 precision strike with 320dmg would be normal ability and no one would even whine about it.

Could be easily dodge? Yea, when they rightly calulate time and drop bomb on my HQ, when my infantry retreats to it, reminds me "Dodge this" from Matrix. And in a midle of combat you can't always here sound of falling bomb or if you hear it - it may be late. So, there is no differense between B-4 and Ju.87.

Same can be said to the b4, expect it hits before you can do anything. Not hearing it has nothing to do with balance, the sound is very clear. A player who can hit the right spot on your hq on the right time without any vision is pretty impressive, and if you played it well he will get only 1 squad with extreme luck.

And if pircing is important, then have in mind, that for to get that "90 muni" ability you should:

1. Choose that one doctrine.
2. Spend 600 MP (huge enough) for to get unit. Wehrmacht don't pay any MP for to call Ju.87. More than that - Ju is absolutelty unvunerable while bomb falling. Compare it with IL-2 bombing strike, which also costs way more.
3. Get Vet 1. That's not so easy with such random accuracy, like B-4 has.
4. Ok, now you are ready to snipe enemy units. OH SHI-, IT'S DIVE BOMB FALLING ON MY B-4!!!
5. GO TO 1.

1 Same goes for stuka, the docs are generally pretty bad aswell, expect the elephant one.

2 Did you forget that b4 can also fire normally with zero cost? Il2 does more damage and it does not get shot down unless you give it a bad path and get extremely unlucky.

3 No not really, i always got it to vet 1 quite easily and after that it was gg for enemy.

4. Yep thats what usually happened eventually, but the damage was already done. Note that the enemy just locked a doc to counter you, waited for 12cp's and used 240mu to kill one unit and then you just build a new one.

So yea, Pricing is very important. But for B-4 you have to pay so much times more...

Indeed.

Now, i am aware that b4 atm is shit, but no more precision strikes, remember that katy had one aswell? That shit was so broken that i dont want to see any pinpoint acc abilities that have little to none warning.

Why? What's the difference between ultrawpide blob by PzWerfer or Calliope or Stuka? Or Dive bomb?

Cause it's not good at countering blobs, more than way too effective and deleting single squads or tanks (in case of B4). Notice that IMO the changes to the CalliOP were not correct (still the first 2 barrages are equal) and the PW has been nerf (i don't think it needs suppression due to how it works and would make more sense in the Katyusha). Stuka is easily dodgeable for infantry and will wreck you if you are not paying attention to your support weapons. There was no need to ninja buff the Dive bomb.

Remind us that reason. And give me a reason, why they didn't remove Dive Bomb?

Cause it means that any support weapon would be killed instantly unless they were behind green cover. Any mortar battle ended when SU got vet1 as it was easy to pinpoint kill the enemy mortar. If you knew about any unit behind yellow cover, it was an insta wipe, specially with the 120mm.

Katyusha would fire 4 rockets which means wipe to any HT or support weapon, B4 could one shot any medium tank, and in combination with mark target, PV.

I'll recognize that dive bomb is annoying on the higher modes as there are a lot of shit going on, but you can dodge it if you hear it coming.

Sure it could kill medium tank in 1 shot but damage could be reduced to 320 instead of removing.

Then we are talking about a completely new unit. It still would be good for erasing support weapons without counter play, one by one. ST and somehow Avre do this but you need to get closer.


PD: since we no longer are able to construct Howitzer in base, i don't see the reason to be able to use offmap inside it. Specially when there are many which aren't able atm.

Stuka and PzWerfer already erase crew weapon in seconds and very often without chance to survive so I don't see any problem with B4. Still it would only decrew and weapon itself would survive whole 320dmg would prevent from one shooting medium tanks.

Or we could see new vet ability like 3 shells 320/240 damage each which would land in line (like stuka zu fuss) but with wider scatter.

Something must be done and some useful vet ability must be added. Or just give it 3 shells / 320 dmg for reguar barrage.

The problem with precision shot is that you can fire it into the FOW, unlike the stuka dive bomb. If it comes back it needs to only work in sight range of your units, and normal barrage like it is into FOW. It also gives some more counterplay this way, while still being very effective.

The problem with precision shot is that you can fire it into the FOW, unlike the stuka dive bomb. If it comes back it needs to only work in sight range of your units, and normal barrage like it is into FOW. It also gives some more counterplay this way, while still being very effective.

Well, there is a recon for a reason so I don't see any problem with sight needed to use PC. In fact I agree it should be required for PC.

The problem with precision shot is that you can fire it into the FOW, unlike the stuka dive bomb. If it comes back it needs to only work in sight range of your units, and normal barrage like it is into FOW. It also gives some more counterplay this way, while still being very effective.

Shooting P.S. in fog means throwing 90 muni into nothing. You should clearly see target, because with such accuracy it should hit it directly. So, you will have to use 80 muni airrecon anyway.

And is it such a big deal, that Dive Bomb can't be dropped into fog? In CAS doctrine they actually have airrecon, so - problem solved. For all other cases - call your mates for recon or use your units, you have options here anyway.

And stop telling that "it's easy to dodge dive bomb". Yea, maybe easy for fast infantry or fast tanks. But not for slow weapon crews or heavy tanks. And besides - it has such enourmous AoE, so it will hit you infantry even if you moved them right when you heard first sounds of falling bomb, so - it will affect you anyway, and B-4's AoE is not such ridiculosly big.

And don't forget - you can't lose your Ju.87 with bomb, but it's veery easy to lose unprotected and static howitzer.

Shooting P.S. in fog means throwing 90 muni into nothing. You should clearly see target, because with such accuracy it should hit it directly. So, you will have to use 80 muni airrecon anyway.

This has more to do with firing at the base sector or at set up OKW trucks. You know exactly where you need to shoot in the FOW to hit the mark, no recon required.

You say it is easy for Stuka dive bomb to do it with scouting, so why can't B4 do it?

This has more to do with firing at the base sector or at set up OKW trucks. You know exactly where you need to shoot in the FOW to hit the mark, no recon required.

You say it is easy for Stuka dive bomb to do it with scouting, so why can't B4 do it?

Well, it can, but what for? Shooting 90 muni in random, when you can spend 80 more and see targets clearly? You also have to calculate where to strike with that P.S. for to get result, and for that you also need vision.

Would you drop Stuka Bomb (if it could be possible) in fog, without knowing where is the enemy? I think no.

And yea - shooting at HQs is not best way of using B-4. I prefer to use it for to destroy heavy and superheavy tanks, like KT or JT. And sometimes infantry, but it requiers too much luck from you. At least, KT/JT it can hited sometimes, so big those tanks are.

Well, it can, but what for? Shooting 90 muni in random, when you can spend 80 more and see targets clearly? You also have to calculate where to strike with that P.S. for to get result, and for that you also need vision.

Would you drop Stuka Bomb (if it could be possible) in fog, without knowing where is the enemy? I think no.

And yea - shooting at HQs is not best way of using B-4. I prefer to use it for to destroy heavy and superheavy tanks, like KT or JT. And sometimes infantry, but it requiers too much luck from you. At least, KT/JT it can hited sometimes, so big those tanks are.

So if you are saying that you should use recon anyways, what is your point?
Why not make it require sight?

So if you are saying that you should use recon anyways, what is your point?
Why not make it require sight?

I never said, that it shouldn't require sight, actually. But, don't forget how much you should pay and risk for to get B-4. 600 MP for one static gun, which can be destroyed by any off-map ability or any tank raid. Maybe it should have some benefits to non-risky Dive Bomb strike? And don't forget, B-4 AoE still twice or more lesser than Stuka's.

That's funny actually. B-4's round weights 100kg - AoE small. Ju.87's bomb weights 50kg - AoE is like it is not air bomb, but V2 itself. I see here some problems with maths.

I never said, that it shouldn't require sight, actually.

Then what the hell are you arguing with me about?

Then what the hell are you arguing with me about?

Lol, read after that sentence, or you read only that you like to read. That's why I arguing. Let it shoot in fog, because without it will be too UP to Dive Bombardment. One can be used only with special unit, veterancy and MP+Popcap spending, another - without it. Let it be better in something, otherwise it will be same unbalanced.

Lol, read after that sentence, or you read only that you like to read. That's why I arguing. Let it shoot in fog, because it will be too UP to Dive Bombardment. One can be used only with special unit, veterancy and MP+Popcap spending, another - without it. Let it be better in something, otherwise it will be same unbalanced.

I'm glad you finally got to the point after 4 posts dicking around.

No, the advantage in the B4 comes from the ability to shoot for free as long as you keep it alive. It is also more difficult to dodge than the stuka, because it arrives faster. The only time you will be missing is against already moving targets.

I agree precision strike should be back on this unit, but, it should also come with the requirement of needing sight on the target. It makes sense from a gameplay perspective, it is called a precision strike after all. The B4 has other advantages to differentiate itself from the stuka dive bomb.

I'm glad you finally got to the point after 4 posts dicking around.

No, the advantage in the B4 comes from the ability to shoot for free as long as you keep it alive. It is also more difficult to dodge than the stuka, because it arrives faster. The only time you will be missing is against already moving targets.

I agree precision strike should be back on this unit, but, it should also come with the requirement of needing sight on the target. It makes sense from a gameplay perspective, it is called a precision strike after all. The B4 has other advantages to differentiate itself from the stuka dive bomb.

All right, let it shoot only to visible territory. But no damage nerf then, because recon costs muni too today.

It's time to use some necromancy and revive that topic. Sexton going to be fixed (not really, it still will suck) soon, so I think, that B-4 should be fixed right after that.

M1931 right now is Soviet Sexton, seriously. Rarely seen, rarely effective, always causing your lose.

We had here few suggestions, like make B-4 do 3 salvos in barrage, instead of 1 shot, but with less power. Looks reasonable for me. But I think, that "snipeshot" should come back to B-4 and I see absolutely no reason, why it shouldn't come back. With that ability B-4 was worthy howitzer, right now it is random-toy, very ineffective random-toy.

Snipeshot shound't be able to use at fog area, it should obviously cost more than 90 ammo (120 would be just great), and I think, that Snipeshot "boom" of howitzer should be louder, for your enemy could hear it and try to save vunerable targets. Just like with Stuka dive bomb.

2 salvos, current stats untouched.


/Fixed

Same price, just one shot, same damage, but more acuracity and a bit more durable against insta kill counters (the gun gets decrewed but barely survives to be repaired against stukas)

This thing shoots outside his aim reticle that's the problem! you can't hit anything with it, don't even think about being reliable, its just extreme rng at least if you don't have 3 or 4 shielded by team mates in team plays.

Also nobody is going to spend fuel for any kind of howitzer without generous bufs.

Nooooopppppeeee