Russians get the greatest AT & ARTY gun out of T1?

What you are talking about ? infantry >> SU85, Panther >>> SU85, Flanking Panzer >>> SU85. Pak >>> SU

You dont fight Su85 head to head, most reich players just going for tank fire exchange. And dont you think that same attack vs 3 panzer will be difficult too ? its like you rech players want easy wins everytime... Relic nerfed M3, Maxim, mortars, only one good unit thats left is f... SU85. I gived up alread... good luck with finding games in few weeks.

You are joking right?

They nerfed maxims because their setup time was near non existant. It also dealt a LOT of damage. It STILL deals more damage than an Mg42 after the nerf. It is STILL more durable than an MG42.

The M3 got nerfed, yes, but not by much. Units getting hurt by exploding transports? That works for both sides. Its risk vs reward.

Shreks are a decent counter to the SU-85, IF you can get that close. Even so, its decent at best, it takes several double volleys to kill a single SU-85. A decent player won't lose it to you.

The Pak is also useless against the Pak, as it outranges it. With any small bit of support, the SU-85 can actually kill the Pak with a lucky hit. Thankfully, increased crew sizes delay this (but doesn't prevent it).

Your omrtars shoot slower, but they have more range. Give me that ANY day. Back in CoH1, the allied mortar was useless compared to the german one (similar speed-range asymmetry), the only advantage being that, if you managed to reach vet 3, it became a very fast, very powerful unit. Most of the time, it didn't.

And yes. The Axis should kill most Soviet units head on. The Germans need a very precise army composition to counter the Soviets, while the Red Army relies on maneuvering and versatility. The downside of Germans being their expensiveness.

I've already said I've discontinued replying to him.
Guy keeps coming at me.

you sir need to grow a backbone its the internet after all.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
-Harry S. Truman

soviets on the defensive are extremely vulnerable to artillery strikes because they depend alot on support units and infantry plus su85. therefore, if there's a problem with su-85s and a whole lot of other supporting infantry, panzerwerfers or field artillery are great at softening them up before u rush in with tanks and infantry.

same with ZiS, although they may be a 6man squad, constant artillery fire will ultimately destroy them.

apart from this, relic needs to pull their head out of their asses asap and reassess unit and ability costs. not all elite infantry and AT guns should be priced at 360mp.

soviets on the defensive are extremely vulnerable to artillery strikes because they depend alot on support units and infantry plus su85. therefore, if there's a problem with su-85s and a whole lot of other supporting infantry, panzerwerfers or field artillery are great at softening them up before u rush in with tanks and infantry.

same with ZiS, although they may be a 6man squad, constant artillery fire will ultimately destroy them.

apart from this, relic needs to pull their head out of their asses asap and reassess unit and ability costs. not all elite infantry and AT guns should be priced at 360mp.

except germans only have mortars (T1), howitzers (Doctrine, expensive), mortar HT (doctrine), and nebelwerfers (T4).

the argument is that russians have mortars (T1/2), long range mortars (Doctrine), zis (T1/2, costs ammo), Howitzer (Doctrine, expensive), katyusha (T4) and su-76 (T4, free barrage and direct fire) = more than germans.

course, its more about the effectiveness rather than amount, and the accuracy of russian zis and su-76 is sickeningly good at times. if i get even a splash damage hit from it on a squad, i must retreat because 80% chance the next shell kills them. i've lost 3 squads from only two shells (not even complete barrages) before.

i'm undecided on the cost element for manpower. i'd like to see support related units cost less, but it also makes you have a real choice between "do i get this one or that one?" and if you pick wrong, it makes an impact with your economy.

Edit in bold. thanks for reminding me combatmuffin

@Warmonkey: Add Katyusha and Mortar HT.

I dont know well Ost Infantry armor superiority helps it vs AoE style explosions, which would be an important factor in support team survival vs indirect fire between the two factions.