Brit tier 2 idea

"Arguably, PIATs are well-designed for ISs. They have the most range of any infantry AT weapon at 45, perfectly suiting long-range superiority units like ISs. There are just two problems:"

I totally agree, though given that my Granny could walk faster than a Piat travels to it's target the range isn't much of an advantage. Even if a cooperative enemy unit stays still it misses.

Having to use attack ground on piats is ridiculous, should be an option not a necessity.

Also does the fast reload actually transfer to dps? I haven't checked but I suspect the reload only occurs once the current projectiles have tortoised their ambling way long of the target. Moving very slightly to the side is the instant counter to a Piat, even faced one chap who drove his Panthers sideways across the battlefield to negate my piat wall.

Would be interesting to test a single double shrecked Volks versus a double piatted Tommy at 35m to see just how big the quality gap is. I'm guessing a factor of 4, dependent upon the orientation of the vehicle! For realism sake piats should be the only AT that can fire from a garrison, shrecks or bazookas would happily kill or poison the inhabitants.

The Hawkins grenade would be the ideal Tommy accompaniment. Either thrown directly as an AT grenade or laid on the ground mine wise to blow wheels and tracks. Would fit beautifully with the defensive mindset of Tommies without enhancing their AI abilities.

I really don't like the idea, especially because it's just making a current sidetech a mandatory upgrade for no benefit. It doesn't make the faction any more interesting, honestly. The biggest reason Brit players (or at least I) don't use Mills Bombs very much is because Tommies are best used at longe range where thrown grenades can't reach their targets.. They're not like conscripts or riflemen where you want to get up close and personal.

"Arguably, PIATs are well-designed for ISs. They have the most range of any infantry AT weapon at 45, perfectly suiting long-range superiority units like ISs. There are just two problems:"

I totally agree, though given that my Granny could walk faster than a Piat travels to it's target the range isn't much of an advantage. Even if a cooperative enemy unit stays still it misses.

Having to use attack ground on piats is ridiculous, should be an option not a necessity.

Also does the fast reload actually transfer to dps? I haven't checked but I suspect the reload only occurs once the current projectiles have tortoised their ambling way long of the target. Moving very slightly to the side is the instant counter to a Piat, even faced one chap who drove his Panthers sideways across the battlefield to negate my piat wall.

I'm fairly sure, from the way other artillery weapons function, that the weapon just reloads normally.

If you wanted to test out a buffed version of the PIAT, here's a mod. It removes the scatter and doubles the projectile speed. The difference is noticeable but dodging the projectile is still fairly easy for medium armour.

Would be interesting to test a single double shrecked Volks versus a double piatted Tommy at 35m to see just how big the quality gap is. I'm guessing a factor of 4, dependent upon the orientation of the vehicle! For realism sake piats should be the only AT that can fire from a garrison, shrecks or bazookas would happily kill or poison the inhabitants.

I think it would depend mostly on the target. The Volksgrenadiers would probably have a massive advantage against everything but Tigers, King Tigers and possibly Churchills simply because of the PIAT's scatter values. If the target is moving, the Panzershreck will definitely win.

The Hawkins grenade would be the ideal Tommy accompaniment. Either thrown directly as an AT grenade or laid on the ground mine wise to blow wheels and tracks. Would fit beautifully with the defensive mindset of Tommies without enhancing their AI abilities.

That does sound interesting. Adding an AT snare to the Mills Bomb upgrade is probably the best way to make it useful.

Mill bombs are actually very good grenades, bu who need them with long range infantry sections that need additional 50 fuel to have 5 man and lmg? I don't want to pay additional 15 fuel for grenades that i don't need.

The weakness of HEAT grenades is a straight balance issue. They cost the same amount as other snares while doing half the damage.

Letting ISs plant mines and REs throw Mills Bombs is a great idea.

do you know if the HEAT grenade has a longer range than faust/AT nade?

"The Volksgrenadiers would probably have a massive advantage against everything but Tigers, King Tigers and possibly Churchills simply because of the PIAT's scatter values. If the target is moving, the Panzershreck will definitely win."

I'm sure it will, but I'm interested in qualitative numbers. Even against a stationary target how much better is a shreck? Moving too against light or medium armour, just how big an advantage does a shreck give you in comparison.

I've nicked Shrecks from axis players only to have them complain about them being OP.

"The Volksgrenadiers would probably have a massive advantage against everything but Tigers, King Tigers and possibly Churchills simply because of the PIAT's scatter values. If the target is moving, the Panzershreck will definitely win."

I'm sure it will, but I'm interested in qualitative numbers. Even against a stationary target how much better is a shreck? Moving too against light or medium armour, just how big an advantage does a shreck give you in comparison.

I've nicked Shrecks from axis players only to have them complain about them being OP.

Shreck on long range will often hit. It also hits moving targets.

PIATs tend to miss even stationary targts often unless you're aiming at KT or JT or Ele.

PIATs are superior vs super heavy armor, but completely useless against everything else.
Inb4 rampaging axis fanboys jump on me, screaming how OP piat is, yeah, this is why everyone goes for PIATs asap instead of ATG.

do you know if the HEAT grenade has a longer range than faust/AT nade?

AT snares appear to be a complete mess on further inspection.

Let's go into why:

- The Panzerfaust, HEAT Grenade and RPG-43 all cost 25 munitions.

- The RPG-43 has 15 range, the Panzerfaust has 18 and the HEAT Grenade has 20. Note that these are ability ranges.

- The RPG-43 and Panzerfaust do 100 damage while the HEAT grenade does 50.

- The HEAT Grenade and RPG-43 have a 0.8 deflection damage modifier (giving 40 and 80 damage respectively) while the Panzerfaust has 0.45 (giving 45 damage).

- The HEAT Grenade and RPG-43 have a flat 100 penetration. The Panzerfaust has 160/150/140 (N/M/F) penetration.

- Accuracy values are odd. The RPG-43 and Panzerfaust have 15 and 11 respectively, meaning they should never miss. The HEAT grenade has 0.2/0.15/0.1 (N/M/F) which means that it shouldn't miss vehicles anyway but is an odd deviation.

- All use a homing projectile type.

In terms of practical use, damage and range are most important. The Panzerfaust is the best snare against light vehicles because of its combination of range and damage but the RPG-43 is better against heavy armour due to its deflection damage. The HEAT Grenade has the best range, which works well with Infantry Sections, but lacks the damage to be useful as a snare.

AT snares appear to be a complete mess on further inspection.

Let's go into why:

- The Panzerfaust, HEAT Grenade and RPG-43 all cost 25 munitions.

- The RPG-43 has 15 range, the Panzerfaust has 18 and the HEAT Grenade has 20. Note that these are ability ranges.

- The RPG-43 and Panzerfaust do 100 damage while the HEAT grenade does 50.

- The HEAT Grenade and RPG-43 have a 0.8 deflection damage modifier (giving 40 and 80 damage respectively) while the Panzerfaust has 0.45 (giving 45 damage).

- The HEAT Grenade and RPG-43 have a flat 100 penetration. The Panzerfaust has 160/150/140 (N/M/F) penetration.

- Accuracy values are odd. The RPG-43 and Panzerfaust have 15 and 11 respectively, meaning they should never miss. The HEAT grenade has 0.2/0.15/0.1 (N/M/F) which means that it shouldn't miss vehicles anyway but is an odd deviation.

- All use a homing projectile type.

In terms of practical use, damage and range are most important. The Panzerfaust is the best snare against light vehicles because of its combination of range and damage but the RPG-43 is better against heavy armour due to its deflection damage. The HEAT Grenade has the best range, which works well with Infantry Sections, but lacks the damage to be useful as a snare.

Very informative, thx!!