Hammer gammon are (still) too expensive.

the hammer gammon bomb should be 45 munition, not 75 munition. the short is fairly short with a ~3.0 seconds fuse.

Most tanks should be able to dodge the bomb easily, unless it's got a damaged engine.

the hammer gammon bomb should be 45 munition, not 75 munition. the short is fairly short with a ~3.0 seconds fuse.

Most tanks should be able to dodge the bomb easily, unless it's got a damaged engine.

Use it against MGs in buildings and stuff like that, things that can't usually retreat in time. I think it pretty much oneshot wipes a building.

Use it against MGs in buildings and stuff like that, things that can't usually retreat in time. I think it pretty much oneshot wipes a building.

Gammon bomb deal heavy damage to building, but it's not a guarantee like the old satchel. The satchel also cost 45 munition compared to the gammon's 75.

Gammon bomb deal heavy damage to building, but it's not a guarantee like the satchel. The satchel also cost 45 munition compared to the gammon's 75mu.

Yeah, AFAIK satchels don't even damage buildings in this patch (lelic wut??)

Yeah, AFAIK satchels don't even damage buildings in this patch (lelic wut??)

the recent patch fixed it. Penal satchel will one shot buildings again.

Use it against MGs in buildings and stuff like that, things that can't usually retreat in time. I think it pretty much oneshot wipes a building.

Agreed. I'm not sure if it also takes buildings down in one go post-patch too.

I don't know what Gammon bombs are meant to be good at. However;
- The gammon bomb doesn't deal enough damage to take out OST trenches or fuel caches
- Very little damage to OKW structures (I think 3 penals satchels are enough to take a flakHQ down?)
- Same goes for weapon teams (including Pak43/LeFH)

I think that this weapon first needs a character (e.g., is it supposed to be an unreliable snare? a satchel charge? a no-tech nade substitute? -- doesn't have to be all of them at once). Once we have figured that out, we can start thinking about the price.

Agreed. I'm not sure if it also takes buildings down in one go post-patch too.

75mu for a throwing grenade is ridiculous to begin with. To justified the price of 75 munition, the gammon bomb would either need to be undodgeable or to be a nuke.

Use it against MGs in buildings and stuff like that, things that can't usually retreat in time. I think it pretty much oneshot wipes a building.

the hammer gammon bomb have the same 3.3 second fuse time as the penal satchel. The german player would need to be caught sleeping to lose anything to the hammer gammon

It is a very odd one. Short range, long fuse and expensive. I can only guess it's meant to be used against static or near static targets.

As a historical aside the gammon bomb didn't actually have a timed fuse, it was an impact grenade. Can't imagine any way that would work in game though, so timed fuse it is.

Satchel cost 60, and its locked behind an specialist unit, thats why its better than gammon bomb

75mu for a throwing grenade is ridiculous to begin with. To justified the price of 75 munition, the gammon bomb would either need to be undodgeable or to be a nuke.

The gammon bomb is, indeed, ridiculously overpriced for 75MU. There is no doubt about that.

However, what I can't tell for sure is how the gammon bomb compares to the penal satchel with respect to efficiency. (I haven't built Penals since the explosives bug).

My understanding is that the Gammon bomb performs like a weaker version of the penal charge, but with longer anti-tank stun.

From what I recall:
- Gammon bomb stuns for ~5 secs (is this correct?)
- Satchel charge stuns for ~3-ish secs (again, not sure)
- Satchel charge definitely one-shots resource caches/bunkers
- I can't remember how satchel charge behaves vs weapon teams/Pak43/LeFH
- Do both have the same anti-building capability (i.e., tearing down ambient buildings, not garrisons)

Could somebody care to enlighten us about how the two abilities compare? I'm curious, but I don't have the time to look it up today.

Hello.

I consider 75 munition beeing a fair price for the desrtuction caused.
Just don't use it like a grenade and don't targed mobile objects.
It oneshot any weapon team and defensive tools.
It is quite comparable with a mini demo- as a grenade or a goliath, all proportions kept in mind.

Kozokus.

Hello.

I consider 75 munition beeing a fair price for the desrtuction caused.
Just don't use it like a grenade and don't targed mobile objects.
It oneshot any weapon team and defensive tools.
It is quite comparable with a mini demo- as a grenade or a goliath, all proportions kept in mind.

Kozokus.

Given what it actually does, its 100% intended to be used against these moving objects, at least as long as they have wheels or threads.

Its much more expensive satchel charge that is equally useless vs vehicles, despite having criticals specifically against vehicles.

Hello.

I consider 75 munition beeing a fair price for the desrtuction caused.
Just don't use it like a grenade and don't targed mobile objects.
It oneshot any weapon team and defensive tools.
It is quite comparable with a mini demo- as a grenade or a goliath, all proportions kept in mind.

Kozokus.

Which defensive tools do you have in mind. I'm 100% sure it doesn't deal enough damage to kill a bunker (I've tried it a few days ago -- however, before the patch to be precise).

Also, regarding weapon teams. Does it take out just the crews, or also full-health guns themselves? Does it make a difference if the guns have been previously abandoned, or not?

I haven't tried it against mobile AT guns, but I know it doesn't work vs LeFH/Pak43 (again, pre-patch).

Satchel costs 45 munitions and can rekt every single building in the game but it has 3 seconds explode time and you must get T1.

In my opinion satchel cost should be increased a bit(50-55) and heavy gammon decreased(60-65). Some of the grenades cost 45 munition. Where is logic?

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Btw. Commandos light gammon bomb(0,5s explode time and 35 munition) and infiltration tactics grenade are OP vs buildings compared to the other grenades.

Satchel costs 45 munitions and can rekt every single building in the game but it has 3 seconds explode time and you must get T1.

In my opinion satchel cost should be increased a bit(50-55). Some of the grenades cost 45 munition. Where is logic?

https://www.coh2.org/topic/50043/shock-troop-grenades-not-damaging-buildings

Btw. light gammon(0,5s explode time and 35 munition) and infiltration tactics grenade are OP vs buildings compared to the other grenades.

Satchel have extremely short range, really long throw animation and if you're not aware of what is going to happen when penals close in on your garrison without flamer, then you fully deserve what comes for you.

Its a dead horse topic you try to address here, so you might just drop it.
And if you still, despite that, believe its an issue in any way, create a thread about it.

This one is not even about same faction.

Given what it actually does, its 100% intended to be used against these moving objects, at least as long as they have wheels or threads.

Its much more expensive satchel charge that is equally useless vs vehicles, despite having criticals specifically against vehicles.

Sorry, by mobile i was meaning non-team infantery and fast moving vehicles.
I wont say it is useless as it does significant dammage (somethin' like 200 for gamon + stun and 300-350 for satchel) to vehicles. 3-4 secondes to detonate may seems a lot but i found it enough to hit a vehicle that stop his engine to aim better as he cannot escape the danger zone in time. Plus, a satchel/gammon in the face is often unexpected and catch most player by surprise, focused they are, on the positionning of your at guns.

Which defensive tools do you have in mind. I'm 100% sure it doesn't deal enough damage to kill a bunker (I've tried it a few days ago -- however, before the patch to be precise).

Also, regarding weapon teams. Does it take out just the crews, or also full-health guns themselves? Does it make a difference if the guns have been previously abandoned, or not?

I haven't tried it against mobile AT guns, but I know it doesn't work vs LeFH/Pak43 (again, pre-patch).

Nah indeed, bunkers and weaponteams wont die. If i remember, weaponteams all have 350 hp, so even a satchel leaves a dozen of hp left on a virgin weapon. But at least it clears everything around and inside, which is something to consider. Oh, it also clear OKW flak emplacements, but a strong wind too, as a bunch of coleric goose.

For what really matters, most "defensive tools" axis have consist of garnisons (bunkers and trenchs) and immobile vehicles. (Un)fortunatly, penals also have flamers that do a far better job at dealing with garnisons.

What is interesting is that both upgrades are almost "free". I mean that you didn't specifically paid for them and you obtained them with a pack of a lot of other more interesting things.

Kozokus.

Pretty sure they have similar stats with the satchel preforming better vs buildings. I think the buffs to OKW base structures to stop clown car satchel spam reduces the effectiveness of them against such structures. It takes around 4-5 of them to kill a truck.

Honestly The gamma bomb is over priced. Its not worth the 75 muni to throw them even for how much damage they do.

For the munitions cost I'd expect a gammon bomb in a building to wipe.

It doesn't though.

Also does anyone know offhand the respective costs of grenades and their unlocks across all factions?

For the munitions cost I'd expect a gammon bomb in a building to wipe.

It doesn't though.

Also does anyone know offhand the respective costs of grenades and their unlocks across all factions?

Only faction that has to upgrade for nades is USF, solvs, and brits. OKW kind of has to as you have to build a t1 or 2.

Nade tech for factions
USF: 25 fuel, 150 mp nade price (25 muni)
Brits: 15fuel, 150 mp nade price (25 muni)
Solvs Molotov: 15 fuel, 150 mp (if I remember correctly) nade price (15 muni)

OKW nade cost (15 muni)
OST nade price (30 muni)

Edit: fixed price for OKW price fix

So those nasty flame grenades are free and only cost 30 muni????

What about the multiple ( infiltration is it?) grenades which are wipetastic?