USF LT Tier issues

Hello guys, I have been playing a lot of 1v1 usf recently, more specifically with the Lieutenant tier, and would like to discuss the timing of the tier as a whole.

Vs. Ostheer, lt tier is almost a necessity to counter the sniper, however the 222 comes very shortly afterwards, and will hard counter the m20 (and lt tier) with its 320 hp buff due to the lack of any true AT in the tier. As a result, it is very hard to get a good flank in to kill the sniper.

OKW on the other hand, counter lt tier even harder, since they can get 1-2 shrecks out by the time the m20 arrives, as well as a very hard counter in the form of the luchs.

I would like to see either one of or both of these changes:

Reduce the build time of the m20. The LT already takes a very long time to build, and the build time of the m20 limits it's impact on the field quite heavily. Ostheer has fausts, and can already softcounter the m20 regardless of t2 being up. This will give USF a little larger of a window to make a play and kill the sniper.

Increase the penetration of the .50 to make it a True soft light vehicle counter. I would like to see the .50 have ~15 pen, so that it can give lt tier a little bit of a defense against enemy vehicles, as well as increase the utility of the .50.

What do you guys think?

Reduce the build time of the M20

What in the fuck.

What. In. The. Fuck.

Build a captain for 60 fuel more, wow, two bazookas on that #freesquad, now you have an AT counter.

I pretty much agree with everything you said, specially the .50 suggestion.


And M20 was always expensive, but after the well-deserved 222 buff i think it's MP cost could be reduced (like 260) and should be already upgraded with skirts.

What in the fuck.

What. In. The. Fuck.

Build a captain for 60 fuel more, wow, two bazookas on that #freesquad, now you have an AT counter.

I'm not entierly sure how building Capt tier solves LT tier problems

It's not supposed to hard-counter the sniper, just contain it.

Build the AA halftrack instead of the M20 on more crowded maps. It counters scout cars in 1 volley and contains the sniper almost as well.

"The sniper isn't meant to be countered. It's just meant to bleed Allied players for hundreds of MP over an entire game, without an answer."

That's pretty much what I'm seeing in this thread.

l2p

l2p

R6 fo life

I'm not entierly sure how building Capt tier solves LT tier problems

Thats been the answer to everything not up to snuff for the soviet for a loong time, why wouldn't it be that way for USF as well?
Penals suck? Use shocks
T3476 not up to par? Use 85s or m4c if you want a tank
Su85 a poor excuse for late gane end tier AT? Spam su76!

Its far easier to ignore than to fix

I like the pen increase idea, actually

50 cal need pen increase, that fact.

do you know that LT tier has AA HT which can deal with 222 and anything that ostheer can deploy early game?

Plus m20 has a crew with zook, though it may not be enough after 222 hp buff.

Anyway you can still upgrade a weapon racks and get 2 zooks for your rears and trust me it will be enough to deal with 222.

about 50 cal. 222 has a really weak armor, so 50cal should easily penetrate it and to get better protection just get into any house (to be honest i haven't used 50cal again 222 so i only speak theoretically)

Generally, LT tier has problems again okw becouse of the risk of fast p2 against ostheer it does really fine (will see what happen after patch)

do you know that LT tier has AA HT which can deal with 222 and anything that ostheer can deploy early game?

Did you know that 222 gets a buff and 2 of them will roll over AAHT?
30 krupp fuel with 2cm guns>>> 60 allied fuel with 37mm gun.

Plus m20 has a crew with zook, though it may not be enough after 222 hp buff.

It barely works now, 222 can always get away unless heavile damaged already and you often lose M20 in the process.

It barely works now, 222 can always get away unless heavile damaged already and you often lose M20 in the process.

It doesn't need to kill it, just scare it off until you get captain tier. Remember m20 can plant mines.

Did you know that 222 gets a buff and 2 of them will roll over AAHT?
30 krupp fuel with 2cm guns>>> 60 allied fuel with 37mm gun.

Don't charge like a madman with your AA HT. Have close your rifle vet1. Snare 222 and problem gone. Again upgrade for zooks cost 15 fuel only, you get 2 of them and you are fine. Plus AA HT cost 50 fuel not 60.

There is always a way to deal with it. If you don't want that, captain tier is... easier

I'm not entierly sure how building Capt tier solves LT tier problems

AT gun buildable on HQ and unlocked after Lieut or Capt is build.

I'm not entierly sure how building Capt tier solves LT tier problems

same... i always try to skip T2 and T3 as Ostheer and go directly for T4, but then i have no AT all game and die to tanks. Obvious solution: buff T4 and its units!

I agree, M20 (and Greyhound whenever they finally buff it...) should come with the armored skirts from the start. If the Wehrmacht Scout Car gets an HP buff AND upgraded gun from the beginning, the M20 should get some buff too.

Also yes, the 50 cal either needs more buff to its weapon or more HP for its crewmen because I find the 50 cal awfully vulnerable.

I suppose it's because of the weapon stats + how by the time you get the 50 cal in, it's either blobs of Volks or a rifle grenade that takes out the MG before it can escape.

Don't be silly. After all the M20 gets a massive 50% penetration buff at vet3.