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Replace spio with vgren as okw starting unit

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Sirlami
15 Feb 2016, 21:11 PM
#61
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 20:47 PMNuclear Arbitor


it's not an issue of micro. for the first 30 seconds the spio will win any encounter, provided the user has a modicum of sense and doesn't try to charge IS or riflemen in green cover from max range.

it basically guarantees OKW any building on the map. same shit happens with pios, CEs, or RETs though, either by trying to fight with a shitty unit or by building your t1 and letting them have that first 30 seconds for free.


It is a issue of micro = A, you have to fail in positioning your units correctly to counter the spios and B, he has to somehow manage to sneak next to you.

And again, you need to have all your units in one place, not all over the map. Against okw you need to be defending in the first 2~ minutes.
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Captain QQ
15 Feb 2016, 21:22 PM
#62
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 21:08 PMEsxile


So don't rush your fuel.

We all agree SP that early with the Kubel behind is a problem but you can easily overcome it by capping everywhere else.

Plus, with practice you pretty much know where you can send safely your capping unit, where you'll have the advantage etc...


Give OKW both fuel for the first few minutes.

You are advocating this as a legit response?
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Captain QQ
15 Feb 2016, 21:25 PM
#63
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Posts: 365

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 21:11 PMSirlami


It is a issue of micro = A, you have to fail in positioning your units correctly to counter the spios and B, he has to somehow manage to sneak next to you.

And again, you need to have all your units in one place, not all over the map. Against okw you need to be defending in the first 2~ minutes.


You live in a magical fairy world were everything can be predicted and countered before it happens.

You are advocating letting OKW grab 3/4 of the map in the first 2 minutes in order to counter the possibility of a spio fuel rush.

Do you not see how disruptive that is to gameplay?

I think I am done responding to you. You clearly refuse to listen to reason.
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Plaguer
15 Feb 2016, 21:54 PM
#64
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Posts: 498

With the correct micro you're able to counter those units with only conscripts, nothing too insane 4k hours played micro

There's nothing wrong with SPios as starter units, neither is there a problem with the Kübel+Spio Combo, it's the maps that cause these issues
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poop
15 Feb 2016, 22:00 PM
#65
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Posts: 174

Ijust realised..

Volks have..

conscript level cheapness
Penal squad anti garrison
shock/gaurd grenade capability
Partisan AT ability

they are all soviet infantry rolled into one unit.
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BeefSurge
15 Feb 2016, 22:02 PM
#66
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Posts: 1891

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 22:00 PMpoop
Ijust realised..

Volks have..

conscript level cheapness
Penal squad anti garrison
shock/gaurd grenade capability
Partisan AT ability

they are all soviet infantry rolled into one unit.


No AT snare, no CQC ability. Volks also can not set up and suppress infantry like an HMG.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
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Jadame!
15 Feb 2016, 22:12 PM
#67
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Posts: 1122

Relic should definitely nerf weakest faction some more fore sole reason low rank players have troubles with laughable double spio builds.
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CookiezNcreem
15 Feb 2016, 22:22 PM
#68
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 16:39 PMCaptain QQ


Addressing something you think is an issue in a calm manner is considered crying?

Is that what you are saying?

God I really hope you weren't just trying to be clever. You being a bad troll would be preferable honestly.


player card pls


you're just crying like a n00b nugget with these past two threads you've made and your name is captain QQ.
That seems like straight troll bait to me.

Posting it here literally wont solve or accomplish anything. Relic will definitely keep sturms the way they are, regardless. Your "addressing" of this issue will not change anything. Its actually just whine/crying/ranting.


If you actually think sturms are op, and you're just up in arms about how to counter them, you should visit the state office and ask for help. Not open a balance thread.

Alternatively, you can make a thread on "how do I counter sturms what am i doing wrong"(you'll get much warmer responses I promise) and if you still cant figure it out, and no one can help you, THEN make a well thought out balance thread.
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SturmTigerVorgo
15 Feb 2016, 22:36 PM
#69
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Posts: 307

Replace COH2 with minesweeper buddy. Problem solved.
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Captain QQ
15 Feb 2016, 23:58 PM
#70
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 22:22 PMCookiezNcreem


player card pls


you're just crying like a n00b nugget with these past two threads you've made and your name is captain QQ.
That seems like straight troll bait to me.

Posting it here literally wont solve or accomplish anything. Relic will definitely keep sturms the way they are, regardless. Your "addressing" of this issue will not change anything. Its actually just whine/crying/ranting.



I know relic isn't going to hire me for balance czar.

I am just starting a discussion. You are the one crying because I made a suggestion. For whose benefit do you fling shit? Your own? I have had the name Captain QQ for over 10 years TYVM.'

If you don't agree, fine. Keep your toxic attitude to yourself.
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Captain QQ
16 Feb 2016, 00:03 AM
#71
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Posts: 365

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 22:36 PMSturmTigerVorgo
Replace COH2 with minesweeper buddy. Problem solved.


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Sirlami
16 Feb 2016, 10:14 AM
#72
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 21:25 PMCaptain QQ


You live in a magical fairy world were everything can be predicted and countered before it happens.

You are advocating letting OKW grab 3/4 of the map in the first 2 minutes in order to counter the possibility of a spio fuel rush.

Do you not see how disruptive that is to gameplay?

I think I am done responding to you. You clearly refuse to listen to reason.


Yes i actually live in one, but even if you dont live here you still should be able to guess what okw is going :snfPeter:

Your the one that is not listening to reason, almost everyone here says that okw sturmpioneers are not a issue and have stated many times why.

And i didn't mean by being defensive that you have to stop, just don't assault any volks or sturms in cover early game.
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Esxile
16 Feb 2016, 10:46 AM
#73
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You can also rush his own cutoff with your squads, it is not like he'll be able to cover all the map while keeping his sturm at your fuel/cutoff.
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MoreLess3rd
16 Feb 2016, 11:09 AM
#74
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Posts: 363

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Feb 2016, 10:24 AMBananenheld


everytime? or is it rng involved? is that outer MOdel in cover and gets the bonus?

i would test it but cheatcommand mod stopped working for me..


i test in Sov green cover (sandbag), the only allied core infantry cant survive the Spio rush is cons..

while IS n Rifle manage to kill them during the rush
here's mah P'Rank
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Bananenheld
16 Feb 2016, 11:12 AM
#75
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Feb 2016, 11:09 AMMoreLess3rd


i test in Sov green cover (sandbag), the only allied core infantry cant survive the Spio rush is cons..

while IS n Rifle manage to kill them during the rush


so we have 2 different "facts" now, could you make pics/gifs of it? i would love to test and post it here by myself but my cheatcommand doenst work anymore.. (https://www.coh2.org/topic/49262/cheatcommand-mod)
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Switzerland
16 Feb 2016, 11:51 AM
#76
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Posts: 545

Honestly this thread is well founded, this faction has been in poor positions due to exploits/outside factors before but since they have come away really well off. I think though that once other factions find those issues addressed that things will setter down.

To point out early game issues that would balance out the OKW if they were addressed I can think of afew immediately.

Kubel has been the one early game scout car apart from the AEC that has seen the fix it needs but not overnerfed or buffed, but AEC isn't particularly early and won't stay in its present form

Due to this kubel fix I'm shocked that the bandaid fix that the clown car got year+ ago now hadn't meant it revived something unique and useful to encourage its use, a squad of cons behind your lines isn't very frightening, and selecting tier 1 is a virtual death wish. Not to be forgotten is the WC51 either, really odd especially as it's the counter faction.

The OKW also no longer seem to really have any issue affording anything but maintain this right to very powerful equipment and troops, whereas it must be said there is not much fear anymore let alone shock when shock troops apear, or penals.

Please take away here, that what in saying is we as a community actively participate in this issue of rubberband balance, and if we want change it should be a case of admiring that small tweaks may accurately solve the problem counterintuitive to directly nerfing the faction.

I like OKW, there's things I dislike, but I think we're all much better served by changing early game issues elsewhere and it will sort itself by large and part.
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MoreLess3rd
16 Feb 2016, 12:00 PM
#77
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Posts: 363

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Feb 2016, 11:12 AMBananenheld


so we have 2 different "facts" now, could you make pics/gifs of it? i would love to test and post it here by myself but my cheatcommand doenst work anymore.. (https://www.coh2.org/topic/49262/cheatcommand-mod)


i'll try what i can to post the Vid or something..
here's mah P'Rank
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Bananenheld
16 Feb 2016, 12:09 PM
#78
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jump backJump back to quoted post16 Feb 2016, 12:00 PMMoreLess3rd


i'll try what i can to post the Vid or something..

some before-after pics are probably enough if gif/video/webm is to complicated
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ashxu
16 Feb 2016, 12:15 PM
#79
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Posts: 124

I think it would be interesting to make OKW an early game faction just like how UKF is sort of late game. However unlike Allies, OKW has the Panther and a fucking KT.
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Captain QQ
16 Feb 2016, 16:53 PM
#80
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Posts: 365

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Feb 2016, 10:46 AMEsxile
You can also rush his own cutoff with your squads, it is not like he'll be able to cover all the map while keeping his sturm at your fuel/cutoff.


jump backJump back to quoted post16 Feb 2016, 10:14 AMSirlami


Yes i actually live in one, but even if you dont live here you still should be able to guess what okw is going :snfPeter:

Your the one that is not listening to reason, almost everyone here says that okw sturmpioneers are not a issue and have stated many times why.

And i didn't mean by being defensive that you have to stop, just don't assault any volks or sturms in cover early game.


In what fanciful word would soviet engineers rushing an okw fuel point benefit the soviet player. They will get pushed off immediately by the next vgren walking by.

I would say it is more like half and half with the against just trolling with "lol no".
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