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What do you think about T0 mg's

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Gumboot
2 Feb 2016, 10:39 AM
#21
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Feb 2016, 10:30 AMTNrg
I think it's a good thing. At least for wehrmacht, which can't fight riflemen or infantry sections with grenadiers at all during the early game. The quick MG is a must.


IS to me aren't an issue. Early game you will see 2 normally with them going a vickers and rushing tier 1 for early engi or AEC (A different issue). The rifleman horde is tough and I agree the Ostheer need something to assist. I don't think it needed to be addressed by giving the MG42 in T0 though. Would of loved to of seen a different approach.

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MarkedRaptor
3 Feb 2016, 01:07 AM
#22
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Dullahan

I don't think factions having MG's at different types is too big of a deal. I think it's just one of those units that is technically easier to use then to counter. In T0 of course.

Although seriously Volley Fire? I have tried 2 ways to sunday to try and make that crap work and every time I use it I regret it. Doesn't matter how smart you play with it when rears die in 3 seconds even behind heavy cover.

Also a bit off topic but

"Also, CoH2 is the only game that has smoke that completely stop a mg in a house from doing anything and has the weakest suppression out of all three of Relic's games to feature suppression. (Coh1 and DoW2 both had much faster suppression. Green cover in Coh2 largely negates it entirely.) "

Dude DoW2 had the WORST suppression, know why? Pinning didn't exist and a majority of commanders countered it simply by existing. I had a hormagaunt squad literally walk through a devastator squad and melee it to death, facetanking the suppression and damage.












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Urza3142
3 Feb 2016, 01:44 AM
#23
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Posts: 44

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Feb 2016, 10:39 AMGumboot


IS to me aren't an issue. Early game you will see 2 normally with them going a vickers and rushing tier 1 for early engi or AEC (A different issue). The rifleman horde is tough and I agree the Ostheer need something to assist. I don't think it needed to be addressed by giving the MG42 in T0 though. Would of loved to of seen a different approach.



In my mind, the solution would be to put some kind of manpower wall in front of building riflemen in the early game to delay how quickly the USF player can get them. The Ostheer does this with production buildings, maybe putting the riflemen in the Lieutenant tree and lowering it's manpower cost? This is looking at it from a somewhat linear viewpoint (I play way too much brits and wehr), so I'm not sure how this would affect early game captain play.

Only problem is that either stormpioneers or Ass grens could utterly screw with USF early game, although considering how long usf has stomped in the early game I would like to see it at least once. :lolol:

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What Doth Life?!
3 Feb 2016, 02:09 AM
#24
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Ostheer MG42 was moved to the HQ to open up build possibilities. You can skip tier one and build Osstruppen or Assault Grenadiers.

I'd like to see USF and OKW get access to their MG's at the HQ after they tech up for the first time.
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ZombiFrancis
3 Feb 2016, 02:25 AM
#25
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jump backJump back to quoted post2 Feb 2016, 10:21 AMGumboot


Sorry mate I am a bit slow, do you mind expanding on this as I think I know what your saying but not sure.


When certain tools are lacking from a faction it leaves a natural counter to the whole faction, rather than a player's choice to forgo a certain type of unit in favor of others.

That sort of thing.
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Nuclear Arbitor
3 Feb 2016, 06:36 AM
#26
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i have no issues with T0 HMGs but i do have an issue with factions not having (at least) solid counters to a unit in any situation. USF has on option against HMGs in buildings for the first several minutes and that is flank (possibly with smoke) and plink at it (and throw grenades for a slightly faster plink at the cost of mun).

on the flip side, T0 HMGs are a very solid counter to early game infantry spam, like riflemen blobs. dealing with 5-7 riflemen before med tanks is VERY difficult without suppression or a similar sized blob of comparable units.

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Feb 2016, 04:44 AMDullahan


USF has Volley Fire to make up for their lack of early machine gun[...]

i agree with the concept but the implementation of Volley Fire has been from a cheap Mind War that won the shittiest unit in the game almost every infantry fight to something that is almost never worth using because it's both ineffective and makes RETs die faster.
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Dullahan
3 Feb 2016, 06:46 AM
#27
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2016, 06:36 AMNuclear Arbitor


i agree with the concept but the implementation of Volley Fire has been from a cheap Mind War that won the shittiest unit in the game almost every infantry fight to something that is almost never worth using because it's both ineffective and makes RETs die faster.


Yeah it definitely got nerfed into the ground.

I'd like to see it tweaked to work like the Bren Carrier vickers suppression, where it's a targeted AoE on the ground.
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Nuclear Arbitor
3 Feb 2016, 06:52 AM
#28
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2016, 06:46 AMDullahan


Yeah it definitely got nerfed into the ground.

I'd like to see it tweaked to work like the Bren Carrier vickers suppression, where it's a targeted AoE on the ground.


i think it would be passable if the increased target size debuff was removed and the suppression amount was increased a little bit (hard to get a sweet spot between the UP/OP versions though).

alternatively making it take 1-2 seconds to kick in and then suppressing HARD in an area would work. that would make it dodgeable but powerful when it hit.

that said, the bren suppression is a poor example as it's also in bad shape at the moment, albeit for slightly different issues.
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Dullahan
3 Feb 2016, 07:03 AM
#29
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jump backJump back to quoted post3 Feb 2016, 06:52 AMNuclear Arbitor


that said, the bren suppression is a poor example as it's also in bad shape at the moment, albeit for slightly different issues.


It's a bit buggy, but it works okay when it decides to work.
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