Panzer Tactician Smoke is outright broken

It's awesome, but arguably not very relevant for a Coh2 balance forum

What's not relevant? Explain please.

What's not relevant? Explain please.

I worded it wrong, it's relevant as a mechanic as it is in the game as well as it was historically used. It's not as relevant in a gameplay perspective (from my point of view) due to most things in this game being balanced with historical accuracy disregarded.

It's a retarded ezmode mechanic. In my opinion it should not be in the game, at least in its current form.

It's a retarded ezmode mechanic. In my opinion it should not be in the game, at least in its current form.

Then lets remove M20 smoke, AEC smoke, stuka bombing strike, british railway arty, arty cover and marked target while you are at it.

Then lets remove M20 smoke, AEC smoke, stuka bombing strike, british railway arty, arty cover and marked target while you are at it.

Works for me.

Panzer tactician smoke is 1 click escape card. It was issue since ever.

Agree

Works for me.

I like your attitude soldier.

Ok, fair enough. OH tanks have an advantage when it comes to the panzer tactician smoke ability. The question is this: Is it really an issue for the game as a whole?

I think we need to remind ourselves that the game is built upon the principal of asymmetrical balance! Allies have advantages and disadvantages compared to axis and the other way around - this is how the game is built and how it should be. OH got have the option to go for tanksmoke. USF can stretch out their popcap and get insane amounts of troops and vehicles. OH HMG42 has a wide arch of fire and a relatively long setup and teardown time compared to the SU maxim counterpart. I can go on if you would like. The point is that asymmetrical balance is what breathes life into the game. i mean, what is the point in have 5 factions if there are no distinct differences among them? It is a problem I've seen numerous times over the time i have been lurking this forum. People seem so hellbent on bringing down the very principal that makes the game fun. If it's not SU demolitions that should be given to OH, then it's OH who needs its own T70.

We don't want a symmetrical game. stop lying to yourselves and learn to play.

Panzer Tactician costs 30 munis. Concealing Smoke on flak track is actually free. The M20 and AEC also get smoke AND are non-doctrinal. Note that Panzer Tactician takes up one of there doctrinal abilities slots.

There is difference between having smoke on light armor and heavy tanks. I would say smoke is fine for 222 and halftruck because they are already lack durability.

In the 1v1 setting in the early game where you're being harassed by and AEC and you Faust and hit it with pak, then it smokes and leaves is way worse because you don't have any armor of your own yet that can chase it. I think it's most lethal on the light vehicles like m20 and AEC.

Panzer tactician smoke is 1 click escape card. It was issue since ever.

If it wasn't an "issue" why would they lock it behind specific commanders? Lots of the Ostheer doctrines have very useless abilities and this is one of the few that isn't. Its not free, it doesn't guarantee the survival of the vehicle (like many of you are saying) and its locked behind specific commanders.

Some people are saying how it makes it soo easy for axis vehciles to survive while the USFs can hop out of the tank and instantly repair engine damage and drive away WHILE ALSO HAVING SMOKE, AND its on ALL their vehicles. Soviets have vehicle crew repair, and Brits have all these abilities that smoke all damaged vehicles for you AND free smoke on AEC.

I had a game a few days ago where I was using riegel AT mines (guarantees engine destroyed) and a Sherman hit it and got disabled, as I was moving my paks in to finish it off, he had hopped out and repaired it, smoked my paks and was gone.
Non-doctrinal ability countering doctrinal one.

If Ostheers panzer tactician is an "issue" then USFs 3 second crit repairs is also an issue.

If it wasn't an "issue" why would they lock it behind specific commanders? Lots of the Ostheer doctrines have very useless abilities

Lots of soviet commanders have useless abilities, one of them made of them - nkvd.

Lots of the Ostheer doctrines have very useless abilities and this is one of the few that isn't

Lots of soviet commanders have useless abilities, nkvd made of them.

Some people are saying how it makes it soo easy for axis vehciles to survive while the USFs can hop out of the tank and instantly repair engine damage and drive away WHILE ALSO HAVING SMOKE, AND its on ALL their vehicles.

1.American vechiles have HUGE disadvantages that you probably don't know about.
Increased target sizes - makes easier to hit from all at weapons and increased vep up requirements.
Where sherman reaches vet 2 cromwell already will be vet 3, where jackson hits vet 2 jp4 would be vet 4 already.
But there is something can be done about crit repair, right after OP panzer tactician nerf.

I think it should cost muni for Ostheer. Everyone else pays for their panic smoke button.

Attack ground works, but it's kind of bullshit that it's free considering all vehicles get it. (incl heavy tanks)

I think it should cost muni for Ostheer. Everyone else pays for their panic smoke button.

Attack ground works, but it's kind of bullshit that it's free considering all vehicles get it. (incl heavy tanks)

Its not free. It costs 30 munitions.

Mortar smoke? Really? Voted no, this is just ridiculous.

Mortar smoke? Really? Voted no, this is just ridiculous.

typical wehraboo ladies and gentleman!

On the topic: I think the smoke is okay, it just need to cost more, ost have too many op abilities that are also super cheap.

Lots of soviet commanders have useless abilities, nkvd made of them.
So if NKVD had one decent ability they should nerf it because its apparently OP. Same for Ostheer right?

1.American vechiles have HUGE disadvantages that you probably don't know about.
Increased target sizes - makes easier to hit from all at weapons and increased vep up requirements.
Where sherman reaches vet 2 cromwell already will be vet 3, where jackson hits vet 2 jp4 would be vet 4 already.
But there is something can be done about crit repair, right after OP panzer tactician nerf.

Vehicle Sizes

M15A1 - 20
Stug III - 20
M8A1 - 19

P4 - 22
Ostwind - 22
Sherman - 23

Firefly - 23
Jackson - 24
Panther - 24
Comet - 22

Stuart - 19
Cromwell - 18 Same as 222 lol
222 - 18

Not to sure where your getting the idea that the USFs vehicles have larger target sizes. I mean, the sherman is 1 point larger than P4 which is the only big difference i see here. The only thing that i found odd was that the cromwell is small than stug and is the same size as 222 lol. I didnt know about the veterancy thing though.

Edit:
Found the veterancy values
P4
Vet 1 = 1950
Vet 2 = 3900
Vet 3 = 7800

Sherman
Vet 1 = 2020
Vet 2 = 4040
Vet 3 = 8080

Really not that big of a difference if you ask me. Also note that since the sherman is cheaper, it will gain more xp from hitting targets than the P4 so this makes them pretty much even.

typical wehraboo ladies and gentleman!

On the topic: I think the smoke is okay, it just need to cost more, ost have too many op abilities that are also super cheap.

OP abilities like what?

The smoke is fine, usually whatever using it is critically damaged or prone to death, and other factions have smoke abilities, so complain about those ones as well. And towards the argument of it being a getoutofjailfree card, I see it being mitigated by the fact the Wehrmacht get their armour out later, and at a higher price than their allied contemporaries. And how simple it is to chase a weak panzer through some smoke. Happens a lot.