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russian armor

Stuart mp price

28 Jan 2016, 23:54 PM
#1
avatar of Sirlami
Donator 11

Posts: 422 | Subs: 3

Stuart = 240

Luchs = 315

Aec = 340

I think stuart could use a mp price increase to be more equal with the other light vehicles. Maybe the luchs could use cheaper mp cost too.

Adding the tech mp prices here aswell:

Usf 200mp

Okw 300mp (/fixed price. tilted that luchs was still in t4 :D)

Ukf 280mp
29 Jan 2016, 00:18 AM
#2
avatar of varunax

Posts: 210

So... you want to nerf the Stuart and buff the Luchs? For what?

The Luchs already shreds infantry. The Stuart isn't even really good at anything besides picking off at armored cars.
29 Jan 2016, 00:40 AM
#3
avatar of MarkedRaptor

Posts: 320

USF is pretty manpower hungry already, not sure if that's a great idea. To me a Stuart is a jack of all trades master of none. Maybe 280?

Also I wouldn't count the brit AEC because that unit is crazy strong and overpriced at the same time.
29 Jan 2016, 02:06 AM
#4
avatar of Sirlami
Donator 11

Posts: 422 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jan 2016, 00:18 AMvarunax
So... you want to nerf the Stuart and buff the Luchs? For what?

The Luchs already shreds infantry. The Stuart isn't even really good at anything besides picking off at armored cars.


Reducing the luchs mp would not really affect the timing of it, the reason it should be cheaper is that it loses to all light vehicles.

Stuart is very good against inf aswell, this mp increase would make usf rethink if they want to get a pack howitzer or a fast stuart, now they can get both because the stuart is so cheap mp wise.
29 Jan 2016, 04:13 AM
#5
avatar of edibleshrapnel

Posts: 552

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jan 2016, 02:06 AMSirlami


Reducing the luchs mp would not really affect the timing of it, the reason it should be cheaper is that it loses to all light vehicles.

Stuart is very good against inf aswell, this mp increase would make usf rethink if they want to get a pack howitzer or a fast stuart, now they can get both because the stuart is so cheap mp wise.


Well yeah, it loses to light tanks if you expect to frontally assault each other.

Stuart is fairly weak AI, stuart isn't even that cheap either. What, 70 fuel and 240 mp for a kinda crappy generalist light tank? Most people just tech M20, then get captain, then get mediums. Stuart has fallen out of the meta bro, no need to nerf it.

29 Jan 2016, 04:19 AM
#6
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

Stuart is fine, IMO it's cheap price, timing, and utility make it the best light ingame.

Can tank a lot of damage, super fast, free capping and self repair, and sight range through vet and not ability use. It hard counters all Axis light vehicles in a vacuum and helps USF deal with lategame heavies with its abilities. It's honestly one of the best designed units in the game.
29 Jan 2016, 10:13 AM
#7
avatar of Sirlami
Donator 11

Posts: 422 | Subs: 3

Stuart is fine, IMO it's cheap price, timing, and utility make it the best light ingame.

Can tank a lot of damage, super fast, free capping and self repair, and sight range through vet and not ability use. It hard counters all Axis light vehicles in a vacuum and helps USF deal with lategame heavies with its abilities. It's honestly one of the best designed units in the game.


That still doesnt mean that it should be dirt cheap mp wise.
29 Jan 2016, 10:16 AM
#8
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

Now compare fuel costs and you'll see a pattern.
29 Jan 2016, 10:18 AM
#9
avatar of Sirlami
Donator 11

Posts: 422 | Subs: 3



Well yeah, it loses to light tanks if you expect to frontally assault each other.

Stuart is fairly weak AI, stuart isn't even that cheap either. What, 70 fuel and 240 mp for a kinda crappy generalist light tank? Most people just tech M20, then get captain, then get mediums. Stuart has fallen out of the meta bro, no need to nerf it.



60~ is hardly a nerf, just a adjustment to again, make the usf player choose between fast stuart or get a pack howi and delay the stuart.
AVA
29 Jan 2016, 10:20 AM
#10
avatar of AVA

Posts: 78

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jan 2016, 10:13 AMSirlami


That still doesnt mean that it should be dirt cheap mp wise.


Fuelwise it's pretty expensive though compared to the Luch.
29 Jan 2016, 10:24 AM
#11
avatar of Sirlami
Donator 11

Posts: 422 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jan 2016, 10:16 AMKatitof
Now compare fuel costs and you'll see a pattern.


I dont remember the exact stats for the fuel costs and the stat sites are outdated, but stuart is 60 + another 60 for the captain, for luchs its 10/5 for the truck 40 setup and 60 for luchs, 20 ish fuel difference.
And i dont remember if the factions have the same starting fuel, plus usf can push the map early game to secure better fuel income anyway.

The stuart completely hardcounters the luchs with the captain, but again the point was not to nerf stuart stat wise, just to make usf choose between fast stuart or pack howitzer
29 Jan 2016, 10:30 AM
#12
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jan 2016, 10:24 AMSirlami


I dont remember the exact stats for the fuel costs and the stat sites are outdated, but stuart is 60 + another 60 for the captain, for luchs its 10/5 for the truck 40 setup and 60 for luchs, 20 ish fuel difference.
And i dont remember if the factions have the same starting fuel, plus usf can push the map early game to secure better fuel income anyway.

The stuart completely hardcounters the luchs with the captain, but again the point was not to nerf stuart stat wise, just to make usf choose between fast stuart or pack howitzer

For the units alone.

Plus what hardcounters what is really irrelevant, it doesn't matter that Stuart hardcounter luchs if luchs have incomparably better AI performance with better AT support.

Stuart is 70.
Luchs is 65.
AEC is 50.

Basically, the less menpower unit cost, the more expensive it is fuel wise, so cost effectiveness is kept on correct level.

You want stuart to cost more menpower, then its fuel price would have to be lowered and USF would still get both, pack howi and stuart, just like ost doesn't need to choose between pak40 or pgrens and just can get both.
29 Jan 2016, 10:36 AM
#13
avatar of Sirlami
Donator 11

Posts: 422 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jan 2016, 10:30 AMKatitof


Basically, the less menpower unit cost, the more expensive it is fuel wise, so cost effectiveness is kept on correct level.

You want stuart to cost more menpower, then its fuel price would have to be lowered and USF would still get both, pack howi and stuart, just like ost doesn't need to choose between pak40 or pgrens and just can get both.


The fuel does not need a decreased with the mp increase. pak40 and pgrens? That makes zero sense. Maybe if ost could get a free pgren squad with t2 and buildable panzer 3 companied by a leig :snfPeter:

29 Jan 2016, 10:39 AM
#14
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

I never have had a problem with that, especially since that OKW already start with a manpower bonus and a rather strong first capping and harassment unit.
29 Jan 2016, 11:53 AM
#15
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jan 2016, 10:30 AMKatitof

For the units alone.

Plus what hardcounters what is really irrelevant, it doesn't matter that Stuart hardcounter luchs if luchs have incomparably better AI performance with better AT support.

Stuart is 70.
Luchs is 65.
AEC is 50.

Basically, the less menpower unit cost, the more expensive it is fuel wise, so cost effectiveness is kept on correct level.

You want stuart to cost more menpower, then its fuel price would have to be lowered and USF would still get both, pack howi and stuart, just like ost doesn't need to choose between pak40 or pgrens and just can get both.


Doesn't OKW start with less fuel?
29 Jan 2016, 11:58 AM
#16
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jan 2016, 11:53 AMAlphrum


Doesn't OKW start with less fuel?


Less fuel compared to what?
Every faction starts with different fuel amount, but only axis factions get menpower bonuses on top of that, 60 for Ost and 100 for OKW.
29 Jan 2016, 14:25 PM
#17
avatar of A big guy 4u

Posts: 168

USF already manpower starved. Light vehicle play is supposed to be one of their pillars of survival.

No. No price increase to anything in USF.
29 Jan 2016, 14:39 PM
#18
avatar of Sirlami
Donator 11

Posts: 422 | Subs: 3

USF already manpower starved. Light vehicle play is supposed to be one of their pillars of survival.

No. No price increase to anything in USF.


Usf is only manpower starved when you play badly or your opponent is much better, lmg rifles, paras, rangers all trade super cost effectively.

Also you may say that usf bleeds against snipers, well thats not the point in this thread, i know that the ost sniper needs a rof nerf or smth, but im not talking about that here.
29 Jan 2016, 15:04 PM
#19
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 587

T70 is also dirt cheap mp wise (200 mp).

Light vehicle manpower pricing seems weird to me.
29 Jan 2016, 15:09 PM
#20
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jan 2016, 15:04 PMzarok47
T70 is also dirt cheap mp wise (200 mp).

Light vehicle manpower pricing seems weird to me.


Well, T-70 doesn't survive 2nd hit at least, this translates to 50% less survivability vs Stuart and Luchs.

But can agree on the 2nd part.

While its rather clear why meds and heavies are priced as they are, prices for lights are questionable at times, the best example would be WC51 vs M3, where WC51 have every single stat inferior, except for the price, which is considerably higher, higher then most "heavy" lights when it comes to mp and still much higher then other comparable lights when it comes to fuel.

Or 250 being at 40fu where HTs that actually reinforce and are armed are at 30.
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