I'm new to the UKF and I just had a hard time during the first few ranked games against OKW. The early-mid-game works quite well for me, with trenches Vickers AECs and Sipers gaining map control. But as it comes to the lategame i lose the grip, because there is no way to support my troops like the OKW Player does. The OKW saves their range support with those infantry-artillery and Stukas, which by the way outrange my support (mortar pits etc) by far. There is no way to get rid of these, if the OKW player has just basic micro-skills to defend them, and I have to deal with the fire from above until the bitter end. They kill my AT-Gun- and Vickers-firecrews and my RE's while they're repairing Vehicles, that take a lot of Damage from the Stukas too. That all drains my military clout a lot.
The OKW advantages me in every way, Jagdpanzer IV and Schrecks kill my tanks. Even though they charge with blobs into my Centaur they kill it whith acceptable casualties and there is no way to supress them, because I can barely keep my MGs alive. The Jagdpanzers take out anything moving, even my Fireflys, cuz there is no way to charge them while they are being protected by Schrecks. The only thing that helps are the upgraded Infantry Sections with 5 men Brens and Medics, they can easily compete with Volks-blobs and Obersoldaten. But there is no way to win the game without anti-tank and vehicle support.
I got outplayed a few times by players with a lower skill-level. Some of my wins aren't really wins, I just managed to outcap the enemy somehow even though i got crushed.
Please give me some advice how to play against OKW maybe with a replay referrence
I thought of the use of chruchs and comets, but didn't tried them out yet.
Here's just a replay, where you can see my struggle:
https://www.coh2.org/replay/48384/intense-clash
greetings
How to play against OKW
28 Jan 2016, 00:42 AM
#1
Posts: 15
1 Feb 2016, 00:57 AM
#2
Posts: 552
Hooo boy, that replay was almost too hard to watch.
You didn't really pose any answerable questions in your post, so I'll outline your mistakes and how to improve.
1. Mortar. Simple counter to intense blobs and even Leigs, but you need to support and defend it.
2. Sniper play. You need to be more aggressive, your sniper wasn't doing anything for most of his life.
3. AEC play, you also need to be more aggressive, you really could've established a foothold with your aec and sniper, but you were very passive with both.
4. Capping order, with your first IS, you went forward, and then backwards to cap, which left your opponent to take what you had, as you weren't covering it with anything.
5. Wrong commander choice, you only used the halftrack? You really could've won if you went with artillery cover or Vanguard operations, go with a commander which you will make the most use of.
6. Firefly use, you need to rest them behind all your units and act it as a support weapon, not second line with your infantry, as they get shrecked. And your really didn't need to get three...
7. Crocodile. I was waiting the entire game for the Croc, as he wouldn't have had any effective counters until his 35 min jagdpanzer. Croc destroys infantry and tanks, as well as being a sponge. Attack, repair. Rinse and repeat.
8. Armour micro, you lost all your tanks because they weren't supported by infantry or they were by themselves on the frontlines, combined arms is the key during the mid and late stage.
I missed some stuff, but those were the most pressing issues.
You didn't really pose any answerable questions in your post, so I'll outline your mistakes and how to improve.
1. Mortar. Simple counter to intense blobs and even Leigs, but you need to support and defend it.
2. Sniper play. You need to be more aggressive, your sniper wasn't doing anything for most of his life.
3. AEC play, you also need to be more aggressive, you really could've established a foothold with your aec and sniper, but you were very passive with both.
4. Capping order, with your first IS, you went forward, and then backwards to cap, which left your opponent to take what you had, as you weren't covering it with anything.
5. Wrong commander choice, you only used the halftrack? You really could've won if you went with artillery cover or Vanguard operations, go with a commander which you will make the most use of.
6. Firefly use, you need to rest them behind all your units and act it as a support weapon, not second line with your infantry, as they get shrecked. And your really didn't need to get three...
7. Crocodile. I was waiting the entire game for the Croc, as he wouldn't have had any effective counters until his 35 min jagdpanzer. Croc destroys infantry and tanks, as well as being a sponge. Attack, repair. Rinse and repeat.
8. Armour micro, you lost all your tanks because they weren't supported by infantry or they were by themselves on the frontlines, combined arms is the key during the mid and late stage.
I missed some stuff, but those were the most pressing issues.
1 Feb 2016, 18:59 PM
#3
Posts: 15
I apologize for my noobness
Yeah I noticed some of your points, as I got used to the faction.
The AEC thing is undeniable, it is a good unit and I now use it more aggresively. I also know more about the strengths of the IS/medics and can bring up more dominance in the earlygame with the help of trenches/vickers.
I just used this commander, because i was rather new to the UKF and didn't know much about the others, and I have to admit that a croc would have been the right choice.
My remaining problems: The lategame and tank gameplay. It's still hard for me to compete with the german tanks and to support mine the right way. Do you mean the lack of anti-infantry support or Anti-tank support? or both? Are piats a weapon of choice?
I'm really gratefull for your help!
Yeah I noticed some of your points, as I got used to the faction.
The AEC thing is undeniable, it is a good unit and I now use it more aggresively. I also know more about the strengths of the IS/medics and can bring up more dominance in the earlygame with the help of trenches/vickers.
I just used this commander, because i was rather new to the UKF and didn't know much about the others, and I have to admit that a croc would have been the right choice.
My remaining problems: The lategame and tank gameplay. It's still hard for me to compete with the german tanks and to support mine the right way. Do you mean the lack of anti-infantry support or Anti-tank support? or both? Are piats a weapon of choice?
I'm really gratefull for your help!
2 Feb 2016, 04:13 AM
#4
Posts: 552
I apologize for my noobness
Yeah I noticed some of your points, as I got used to the faction.
The AEC thing is undeniable, it is a good unit and I now use it more aggresively. I also know more about the strengths of the IS/medics and can bring up more dominance in the earlygame with the help of trenches/vickers.
I just used this commander, because i was rather new to the UKF and didn't know much about the others, and I have to admit that a croc would have been the right choice.
My remaining problems: The lategame and tank gameplay. It's still hard for me to compete with the german tanks and to support mine the right way. Do you mean the lack of anti-infantry support or Anti-tank support? or both? Are piats a weapon of choice?
I'm really gratefull for your help!
Late game really relies on snowballing, starting strong, inflicting casualties, seizing large portions of the map, holding it, remember, give an inch take a yard! Three important tips for all aspects of game, especially late game.
1. Unit preservation, keeping squads alive, vet is the key to success.
2. Micro, coordinating all your units so that their always doing something and avoiding bad encounters, for example dodging a grenade thrown into a building by getting out, and then going back in.
3. Combined arms, this ties in with your question on dealing with german tanks, you need to have a balanced army as UKF, having MG's, protected by infantry sections, supported by At (mortars optional). That's how I hold territory, and if the enemy breaks through, simply relocate and hold another position, and after you've won a skirmish, push forward. Cat and mouse is what happens a lot. Make use of the trenches as well, kinda cheesy, but effective none the less.
So, for tanks, it really simply boils down to having an AT gun/fire fly and having it supported your infantry pushes. and mines. MINES. May seem tedious/boring, but they really do influence games. They disable vehicles, wipes squads, and force the opponent to make rash, unplanned decisions.
Oh yeah, and piats. Don't use them, absolute trash. They can only hit non moving targets, and even then the damage is mediocre.
2 Feb 2016, 06:10 AM
#5
Posts: 25
i havn't watched your replay but i just want to give a feew tips you may or may not know.
1. avoid the arty commander like the plague. its horrible.
2. generally you want 3-4 IS with double brens by late game all at 2 or 3 vet. 1 IS should have the arty call in the others with medical.
3. use the IS's arty base call in as an area denial not to kill, the thing is bad at killing still targets. That said if there is a large group of mortars, AT guns, mgs ect then its good to kill them or atleast force them to move. See a volk blob? call it down on them when about to retreat or stay and fight out behind the arty forcing them to retreat.
4. in late game use a churchhill to spong and a firefly behind it to kill tanks or use 2-3 comets to flank the tanks while something is distracting them.
5. if the enemy have 2 or more mortars dont even bother building a mortar pit because it will die. (maybe unless your the royal engineers commander)
6. early cromwells are god
7. if you call in salvage engineers use them. pathers get you about 50 fuel, stugs 40 ect as well as man power and munitions
8. consider building a munition cach or fuel, or both
1. avoid the arty commander like the plague. its horrible.
2. generally you want 3-4 IS with double brens by late game all at 2 or 3 vet. 1 IS should have the arty call in the others with medical.
3. use the IS's arty base call in as an area denial not to kill, the thing is bad at killing still targets. That said if there is a large group of mortars, AT guns, mgs ect then its good to kill them or atleast force them to move. See a volk blob? call it down on them when about to retreat or stay and fight out behind the arty forcing them to retreat.
4. in late game use a churchhill to spong and a firefly behind it to kill tanks or use 2-3 comets to flank the tanks while something is distracting them.
5. if the enemy have 2 or more mortars dont even bother building a mortar pit because it will die. (maybe unless your the royal engineers commander)
6. early cromwells are god
7. if you call in salvage engineers use them. pathers get you about 50 fuel, stugs 40 ect as well as man power and munitions
8. consider building a munition cach or fuel, or both
4 Feb 2016, 04:44 AM
#6
Posts: 444
I suggest picking arty cover doctrine it has a lot of advantages for new players.
Im not a pro I play casual you can check my replays vs OKW I think i did a good job with arty cover, I killed 2 king tigers with a well timed arty cover and aggresive push, i almost lost to those massive shreck blobs vickers held on he gave up 1 hour 15 mins.
My replay
1) if you manage to save your AEC till your first armor make AEC command vehicle ( it gives a lot of bonus your AT guns will go bonkers .. 30% reload, 30% recieved accuracy is no joke)
2) you can save atleast 400 odd manpower if you spend 150 munition on AT and vickers drop.
3) OKW struggle with supression, so vs OKW 2 Vickers is a must add 3 with drop ability.
4) use of arty cover.. wait of the right time to use it dont use it defensively, be very aggressive when you use it.
Im not a pro I play casual you can check my replays vs OKW I think i did a good job with arty cover, I killed 2 king tigers with a well timed arty cover and aggresive push, i almost lost to those massive shreck blobs vickers held on he gave up 1 hour 15 mins.
My replay
1) if you manage to save your AEC till your first armor make AEC command vehicle ( it gives a lot of bonus your AT guns will go bonkers .. 30% reload, 30% recieved accuracy is no joke)
2) you can save atleast 400 odd manpower if you spend 150 munition on AT and vickers drop.
3) OKW struggle with supression, so vs OKW 2 Vickers is a must add 3 with drop ability.
4) use of arty cover.. wait of the right time to use it dont use it defensively, be very aggressive when you use it.
4 Feb 2016, 09:48 AM
#7
Posts: 25
I suggest picking arty cover doctrine it has a lot of advantages for new players.
Im not a pro I play casual you can check my replays vs OKW I think i did a good job with arty cover, I killed 2 king tigers with a well timed arty cover and aggresive push, i almost lost to those massive shreck blobs vickers held on he gave up 1 hour 15 mins.
My replay
1) if you manage to save your AEC till your first armor make AEC command vehicle ( it gives a lot of bonus your AT guns will go bonkers .. 30% reload, 30% recieved accuracy is no joke)
2) you can save atleast 400 odd manpower if you spend 150 munition on AT and vickers drop.
3) OKW struggle with supression, so vs OKW 2 Vickers is a must add 3 with drop ability.
4) use of arty cover.. wait of the right time to use it dont use it defensively, be very aggressive when you use it.
my favorite thing with arty cover is watching the OKW players Rage when i use it when my near dead Churchill is pushed up far and in the open. its great. they usually follow it trying to get that last 1 or 2 shots on it but end up dying to the arty cover.
5 Feb 2016, 19:18 PM
#8
Posts: 15
I suggest picking arty cover doctrine it has a lot of advantages for new players.
Im not a pro I play casual you can check my replays vs OKW I think i did a good job with arty cover, I killed 2 king tigers with a well timed arty cover and aggresive push, i almost lost to those massive shreck blobs vickers held on he gave up 1 hour 15 mins.
My replay
1) if you manage to save your AEC till your first armor make AEC command vehicle ( it gives a lot of bonus your AT guns will go bonkers .. 30% reload, 30% recieved accuracy is no joke)
2) you can save atleast 400 odd manpower if you spend 150 munition on AT and vickers drop.
3) OKW struggle with supression, so vs OKW 2 Vickers is a must add 3 with drop ability.
4) use of arty cover.. wait of the right time to use it dont use it defensively, be very aggressive when you use it.
Thanks for ypur replay, I already learned a few things from it like the efficient use of the tactical support commander. I also use Hammer more often now, because the Comet can compete with heavy tanks and the gammons force suppressed units to retreat.
But I still think the UKF seem a bit underpowered, due to lack of infantry strength in the early game (IS can only survive with Vivkers support) and hard-to-handle tanks in the lategame. The only real strong unit is the AEC. I started to play USF a few days ago and they seem to be more powerfull. The agressive playstyle makes it easy to gain mapcontrol and stuarts/ATs/etc will sustain it. The tanks are fast, cheap, easy to handle and are able to hunt down any targets. I reached level 11 within the first 15 games (now 10 again ) and USF are so much fun to play, but maybe it's just because the US Army was my favourite in the first CoH!
5 Feb 2016, 19:46 PM
#9
Posts: 196
Hooo boy, that replay was almost too hard to watch.
1. Mortar. Simple counter to intense blobs and even Leigs, but you need to support and defend it.
Mortar is definitely not a counter to LeIgs, unless if you speak of the 120mm, because every other mortar gets out ranged by the LeIgs. You see the reverse happening LeIgs being built in response to Mortars.
5 Feb 2016, 20:09 PM
#10
Posts: 552
I said "even leigs", implying their not always an effective counter. Thanks for mini critiquing me though?
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