Should Relic take a look at artillery next patch?

For my money, two click counters should remain, and should still kill the gun but Relic should add in counter-play. If you could shoot down the Stuka with a correctly positioned AA unit, then all of a sudden the axis player has to draw off the AA before proceeding. This way rewards multitasking and mind games without creating a sucktastic turtle-arty fest.

Then we have the:

B-4
ML-20
Scott
Priest
Sexton
LeFH-18
UKF base Howitzers

...

With USF and OKW blobs a big issue at the moment I think one of the ways to mitigate the problem would be by trying to make artillery relevant again.

Every single one of those suggested buffs is for the Allied factions. How in God's name do you think this will help with the USF blobs you talk about and what the flying fack do you think it will do to balance in general when it is already Allied favouring right now?

Good ideas but you just can't give a backline unit brace. The enemy has to go deep to even see it and they can't stick around to wait for it to unbrace.

I hate brace with a passion, just throwing it out there because the problem is in desperate need of a solution. Maybe a different, less cancerous variant of brace that only protects against indirect damage with 3 minute cooldown and and you can't fire during the cooldown?

Also remember that there are some maps where getting LOS on the artillery weapon is nearly impossible. With out stuka bomb strike it would be impossible. I don't like the idea of making artillery more durable.

What about the Priest? It packs all the punch of an ML20 but cannot effectively be taken out by offmaps (against competent players anyway). You can only hope to catch it out of position with a tank or Schrecks. On the maps you mentioned, you wouldn't be able to take out a Priest, which makes me wonder if this would really be as overpowered as you say. But I would take any solution to the current problem, because I really think functional tube artillery is the missing piece in the equation of CoH2 gameplay.

Fix B4 animations?

Every single one of those suggested buffs is for the Allied factions. How in God's name do you think this will help with the USF blobs you talk about and what the flying fack do you think it will do to balance in general when it is already Allied favouring right now?

Second from the bottom.....German static artillery.

Please calm down dear.

Artillery is mainly for team games anyway.....which is not in favour of allies.

I hate brace with a passion, just throwing it out there because the problem is in desperate need of a solution. Maybe a different, less cancerous variant of brace that only protects against indirect damage with 3 minute cooldown and and you can't fire during the cooldown?



What about the Priest? It packs all the punch of an ML20 but cannot effectively be taken out by offmaps (against competent players anyway). You can only hope to catch it out of position with a tank or Schrecks. On the maps you mentioned, you wouldn't be able to take out a Priest, which makes me wonder if this would really be as overpowered as you say. But I would take any solution to the current problem, because I really think functional tube artillery is the missing piece in the equation of CoH2 gameplay.

Still wouldn't want brace on any artillery weapons. They have to fight to get to your artillery gun and either A. kill it (not just decrew) with tanks or B. bomb it with off map artillery of which for ost is stuka strike or Railway and OKW some very expensive off maps which is hard enough to achieve. Give it brace and its like having an invincible mortar or mg that can damage enemies without being destroyed.

Priest and calliope are way harder to kill than static artillery guns due to mobility armor and HP but they also cost a fair bit of fuel as opposed to just manpower. Priest IMO is balanced. Good vs static targets (namely OKW trucks and pak43s) and great survivability. Calliope, while being more expensive pays for itself without even seeing an enemy. Thats not OK IMO.

Artillery should be a SUPPORTING part of COH2 imo. Artillery is LAZY, ANNOYING and FRUSTRATING to deal with, and makes discourages proper assaults and strategies. I remember COH1 games where over half the game was about dodging enemy artillery pieces while trying to build up a strong enough force to defeat them. I do NOT want that again. I don't think any competitive players or relic want that either. Thats my opinion though. At the end of the day whatever makes relic more money will likely be the direction COH2 drifts to.

Second from the bottom.....German static artillery.

Please calm down dear.

Artillery is mainly for team games anyway.....which is not in favour of allies.

Yes, apologies. 6 out of 7 of your suggested buffs are Allied buffs. That's not really going to change my point.

Team games are not Axis favoured either these days. So any large buff to Allies is only going to make things worse.

Yes, apologies. 6 out of 7 of your suggested buffs are Allied buffs. That's not really going to change my point.

Team games are not Axis favoured either these days. So any large buff to Allies is only going to make things worse.

I apologise also. I didn't realise I had neglected to add any other axis artillery, thought I had them all covered.

Please post them and I will edit my main post.......

agree with need for action on all the units listed.

I agree. Just seems odd that the obvious blob counters are in a pretty poor state.

Viable artillery means unfun poor design bs wipe machines in 1v1.
In 4v4 they're inherently stronger and less frustrating because so what if you lose your blobs you've got teammates and will eventually transition into full armor anyways OpieOP
So, no, they don't need looking at now.

Calliope needs to come down to katy lvl in terms of lethality. The high price will then be for its survivability.

Pwerfer needs to come down to katy lvl in terms of lethality. Ost tier 4 pricing still needs to be looked at, stupidly high tech cost is no excuse for an overperforming unit (especially in 2v2 and up).

Stuka and katy is fine. Situational units, as they should be.

Static artillery pieces should only be decrewed by offmap artillery (e.g. stuka dive bomb, IL2 50kg) while retaining a little health on the piece. Minimal amount of effort to completely destroy it is at least better than it is now.

I believe B-4 will always be either under- or overperforming, too much punch in that unit. I don't like it at all.

UKF needs to get some offmaps tweaked (nerfed..) while sexton needs a serious buff. Base artillery...meh, I don't get that design at all.

I have no opinions when it comes to USF artillery except calliope.

IMO

Everyone talks about how the Katyusha is perfectly balanced and to most of the extent I agree but they are so easy to counter.

The stuka can one shot it whilst it is in the middle of its volley and it cannot miss if you time it at the start. I really only build the stuka as a counter to the Katyusha because it works every time and if two are besides each other firing together you can take them both in a single shot.

Buildable howitzers are fine. Just drop the mp cost to 500 and its fine. I'd really rather not see this game devolve into arty spam fests like coh1. Its just not fun.

Nerf calliope and pwerfer damage, buff sexton to priests level. Make 25 pounders scatter less. And it will all be fine.

Yes, artillery for all factions needs looking at next patch.

Viable artillery means unfun poor design bs wipe machines in 1v1.
In 4v4 they're inherently stronger and less frustrating because so what if you lose your blobs you've got teammates and will eventually transition into full armor anyways OpieOP
So, no, they don't need looking at now.

Agreed.

I hate brace with a passion, just throwing it out there because the problem is in desperate need of a solution. Maybe a different, less cancerous variant of brace that only protects against indirect damage with 3 minute cooldown and and you can't fire during the cooldown?What about the Priest? It packs all the punch of an ML20 but cannot effectively be taken out by offmaps (against competent players anyway). You can only hope to catch it out of position with a tank or Schrecks. On the maps you mentioned, you wouldn't be able to take out a Priest, which makes me wonder if this would really be as overpowered as you say. But I would take any solution to the current problem, because I really think functional tube artillery is the missing piece in the equation of CoH2 gameplay.

+1 million.


So much hate for brace...


People say "emplacements are too weak otherwise" are half-right but imagine if the Schwerer flak HQ had brace. And you finally made the volks blob retreat for a minute so you could bring in your AT. Then it braces and takes no damage for long enough for the infantry to return.

LeiG works for sure but... Meh, I think instant-wonder-shield is a bad mechanic.

Reading this thread and seeing all these opinions is reassuring. It's good to see people thinking for once.

Anywho, I'll detail my thoughts on indirect weapons of all types just to inject some more things to consider at least if not propose fixes.

Wall of text inc.

Mobile indirect such as the Stuka, Katy, Pwerfer, Calliope ect. are a fickle thing to balance/modify. As you all know balance in this game is a matter of cost effectiveness, timing, and relative power to other role units. For the raw power these options have they must have obvious and exploitable downsides aside from their cost. For the power the katy, stuka, and pwerfer have, they are relatively squishy to other units on the battlefield at the time. Their individual performance should be measured against each other while keeping cost in mind. The calliope is of course expected to perform better due to its increased cost. (however I do think it's a tad oppressive at times) Seeing as their defensive ability is relatively similar, (calliope excluded, it is considerably beefier compared) balance comes down to their offensive strength. And I believe that in the end it'll come down to trial and error.

Infantry indirect I believe to be the most tame. It can be obnoxious but ultimately provides a solid benefit for its cost at the moment in my eyes. After the reworks/nerfs that went around I feel this area is the closest to achieving a solid state of asymmetric balance. (I am referring to mortars and infantry support guns here)

Static indirect is the most questionable of the types in my opinion. Many of you have already stated solid and very valid opinions. Back in the day you threw down an arty piece in your base and just shot it, plain and simple. There were only two ways to stop it: Blow through or weasel past an entire army into a base, or destroy it via doctrinal or other powerful indirect. Relic having made the change to having to build it outside base sector is fine to me, because that opens up many more counterplay options while still keeping it far back enough to be easily defended. I don't consider brit base arty to be a big deal seeing as you have to pay muni every time to use it, making it extremely cost effective the less you use it compared to traditional arty.(weird notion eh?) Static arty is very strong in its own right, but as stated before in this thread its viable counters are so relatively cheap that by building static arty you are at an amazing risk to lose out in an exchange of their cost to counter for your cost to build. Brace could help with this, but an issue I see with this is that brace allows for a defense against counters outside the issue at hand. Sure it can help against other indirect, but if I am able to get say, infantry or armor up to your static arty, I should be able to make a valid attempt at destroying it and not have to just kinda idle around after having successfully flanked/pushed to destroy it. De-crewing with repairable crit seems valid. because it can give the option of decrewing and disabling for a few minutes versus investing and trying to destroy it entirely at risk of inevitable counterattacks assuming their arty is somewhere near their base. I do agree they need to look at arty. Both to bring back static long range into balanced viability and keep checks on the current state of mobile arty.

Thanks if you read this far.

Side note, I personally think the brit mortar pit is cancerous. Yes its a 400 mp investment and yes it is easily destroyed, but in terms of sheer cost effectiveness and ease of use its absolutely obscene. Pay 400 mp, slap it down just behind front lines and fight around it, and it literally kills all by itself with zero influence from the player. At 400 manpower it can easily pay for itself if its even remotely protected. If the opposing player doesn't get deliberate counter units or abilities for it soon, it begins to become a nightmare as it becomes stronger all by itself.
/rant

artillery doesn't have to wipe to be viable. giving it a larger AoE of less than lethal damage will make it still effective and less of an RNG fest. most artillery right now is both inaccurate and falls of quickly on damage meaning that they don't cause much bleed or force retreats; they either kill or do nothing.