The reasons why UKF base howlitzers suck (stats analysis)

TL;DR:
- A single QF-25lb shell will do LESS damage to infantry than a single Katyusha rocket.
- Unlike the ML-20 (which has 33% larger radius and deals 25% more damage), the penetration value of qf_25lb (120, same as the bazooka) will not allow it to damage tanks either.
- Airburst shells have the same stats as HE shells. However, they have pinpoint accuracy and definitely look prettier.

Pretty screenshots! (courtesy of Australian Magic)

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Raw damage

QF-25lb stats
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Comparison to the Katyusha
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Comparison to the ML-20
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Scatter

QF-25lb stats
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Comparison to the ML-20
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Airburst shells

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What needs to be done (personal opinion)

I will only make a suggestion about scatter. This will make the ability behave more predictably, like an off-map ability. IMO, this is what the players expect of the this unit.

Make it so that the scatter radius (horizontal and vertical) is the same REGARDLESS of how far the howitzer is barraging.

Current scatter is problematic because:
1) Scatter is affected by distance
2) The max scatter cap for Vertical scatter is too high for the number of shells fired
3) There is no cap on Horizontal scatter

What this means:
- Using the ability offensively is impossible, due to high inaccuracy
- Using the ability defensively, near your base is impractical: You don't want all shells to land on the same spot

How to implement this with stats
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Well writen thread. British base howitzers don't kill anything, you can come with your okw blob and tanks under barrage area and feel yourself safe.

All howitzers are inaccurate but they at least kill what they hit.

Frankly any artillery scoring a direct hit on the top of any tank should only leave the bottom of the hull and tracks left. The rest would be spread over quite a wide area.

Thank god im not the only one who thinks they are bad.
Another great post by Mr.Smith

Good post, I'd like to add that it's not only how weak they are when they actually fire. It's also the practicality of getting them to fire in the first place. Getting into a distance to throw the very short range flare is like if soviets had molotovs on only one or two conscripts and they couldn't oorah. You'd never see a molotov thrown on a machine gun.

I would rather see the obvious red smoke on the tommies and sniper artillery removed and their range increase.


Yes, the 25 pounder damage is underwhelming, but if you can use it without sending a obvious tell to the enemy I think the ability will be effective.

Part of the part why katyusha and panzerwerfer are so devastating is because the enemy usually have very little time to react. The 25 pounder should be the british counterpart to the rocket artillery, relying on speed and surprise to hit enemy.

Nice post, confirms how terrible they really are

Free base artillery is just a bad idea in general

Should buff them, make them a purchasable upgrade and make them killable

An excellent post on the details behind the 25pdr. I'd known it had a pretty pathetic splash but didn't know how bad exactly.

I still maintain that gun artillery vs rocket artillery and artillery in general needs a serious overhaul, but there's no denying that the 25pdrs are sub par.

My only concern with the proposed scatter changes is that visually it might look a bit odd if firing close to base, but that isn't something major.

I'd also like to add that the arty doctrine should be able to blind fire them again. Still waiting for an explanation as to why that was changed.

It's a bit annoying facing a LeFH18 that can fire on your base, when you have a couple in your base that can't do the same.

Some sort of counter battery would be nice, it feels completely wrong being out artilleryed ( artilleried? Spell checker says no to both) by the Axis. Before I bought the game I'm sure relic's own description mentioned reliance on artillery.

I would rather see the obvious red smoke on the tommies and sniper artillery removed and their range increase.

I'd love to see this happen, but in a way that doesn't cause it to overperform (if you can imagine brit arty doing such a thing!)

IMO the best way to implement this is with Hammer/Anvil specialization - teching of either would increase the IS/sinper call-in range (to something similar to flare range) removes the flare smoke and reduces the time-on-target delay. Alongside the appropriate fix to scatter/damage, this would result in the following:


T0: No arty

T1: 1 x 25lb howitzer (6 shells per barrage) available from Pyrotechnics-upgraded IS and sniper

T2: 2 x 25lb howitzer (12 shells per barrage) available as above

Hammer/Anvil: 2 x 25lb howitzer (12 shells, Airburst or HE per barrage) available as above with increased ability range and shorter delay between firing and hitting.


This would give brits a more reliable equivalent to rocket arty in the late game stages with out it dominating the mid or early game. It would also further incentivize teching to hammer/anvil in smaller game modes, beyond the obvious reason of rushing a Comet or Churchill. Alternatively, improved lategame arty could be available as a side-tech, lest hammer/anvil become OP.