Tourney Finals Replays
1 Jul 2013, 07:38 AM
#1
Posts: 49
I may just be blind but has anyone got a link to the 5 games from the Tournament final between Sepha and Aimstrong?
1 Jul 2013, 08:43 AM
#2
Posts: 49
"Spoiler Alert"
So if I am watching this correctly, The live cast shows all 5 games and surprise, surprise Russians win ALL 5 games and at least 1 Scout Car from the players in each game. I am astounded they have not fixed this crap yet. Ahwell guess we know who is OP in 1v1, not that we didnt know anyway. GG guys with the units or should I say unit you had available. WD Aimstrong.
So if I am watching this correctly, The live cast shows all 5 games and surprise, surprise Russians win ALL 5 games and at least 1 Scout Car from the players in each game. I am astounded they have not fixed this crap yet. Ahwell guess we know who is OP in 1v1, not that we didnt know anyway. GG guys with the units or should I say unit you had available. WD Aimstrong.
1 Jul 2013, 10:10 AM
#3
Posts: 1582 | Subs: 4
Balance is a delicate thing, which won't be perfect just a few days after release.
I am happy that the balance devs are good players themself who know the issues and communicate with us. Balance will improve over time, i am sure.
I am happy that the balance devs are good players themself who know the issues and communicate with us. Balance will improve over time, i am sure.
1 Jul 2013, 10:51 AM
#4
Posts: 49
I know this, I think its just crazy to have a Tournament worth decent money for a just released game where the balance is far less than perfect so soon. I hope the Tournament helps to draw a strong competitive community but without ladders and win/loss stats and a sense of competition the game will die a quick death so I hope they release them soon.
1 Jul 2013, 11:07 AM
#5
Posts: 3709 | Subs: 2
I know this, I think its just crazy to have a Tournament worth decent money for a just released game where the balance is far less than perfect so soon.
How does it matter? Both players had exactly access to the same tools all the way. The winner is the one who played the bo5 the best. This is why we play bo3 or bo5 and not bo1. The game can be as imbalanced as it could be, this type of tournament will always be fair.
The only thing one could possibly blame affecting the outcome would be the random starting position on the map.
The balance only affects the fun/interesting factor of the games, and outcome of one particular game (which is an issue in automatch and bo1), but not of a boX series.
1 Jul 2013, 11:10 AM
#6
Posts: 480
^ yep
The biggest problem looked like the early squad deaths from the M3 flamecar on retreat. Some of them were avoidable/silly attempt to get off faust deaths, others couldn't be helped at all.
There were at least two games in there where the German player could've won (Aimstrong in G3, where he didn't select a doctrine and kept feeding the SU-85 with PIVs and Sepha in G5, where he just threw away a Flammenwerfer at a key moment instead of killing a retreating guard squad), and one more where the German player just threw it (G1, where Aimstrong just built gren after gren after gren to deal with Sepha's horde of Scout Car Flamers and kept wasting fausts and getting grens picked off one by one).
Aimstrong's Guard Motor strategy is just phenomenally good - I'm not sure we've really seen a German strat at the same level yet.
The biggest problem looked like the early squad deaths from the M3 flamecar on retreat. Some of them were avoidable/silly attempt to get off faust deaths, others couldn't be helped at all.
There were at least two games in there where the German player could've won (Aimstrong in G3, where he didn't select a doctrine and kept feeding the SU-85 with PIVs and Sepha in G5, where he just threw away a Flammenwerfer at a key moment instead of killing a retreating guard squad), and one more where the German player just threw it (G1, where Aimstrong just built gren after gren after gren to deal with Sepha's horde of Scout Car Flamers and kept wasting fausts and getting grens picked off one by one).
Aimstrong's Guard Motor strategy is just phenomenally good - I'm not sure we've really seen a German strat at the same level yet.
1 Jul 2013, 11:15 AM
#7
15 
Posts: 1708 | Subs: 2
If you wait for the balance to be perfect in a best of one scenario you will be waiting forever and that's the case with all video games where the bulk of events are best of three and double elimination.
1 Jul 2013, 11:30 AM
#8
Posts: 3709 | Subs: 2
That's not true in games with mirror match a bo1 is always balanced since both have access to everything.
The issue here is the non-mirror bo1 and I agree this will never be perfect. Just could be improved a lot.
Also bo3/5 is not just to fight against balance issues but also to make the series more interesting and prevent upsets just like double elim does (but requires a lot more planning). Double elim doesn't help with individual series or even tournament balance in any way.
The issue here is the non-mirror bo1 and I agree this will never be perfect. Just could be improved a lot.
Also bo3/5 is not just to fight against balance issues but also to make the series more interesting and prevent upsets just like double elim does (but requires a lot more planning). Double elim doesn't help with individual series or even tournament balance in any way.
1 Jul 2013, 12:00 PM
#9
Posts: 4
No game will be balanced and perfect . But theirs a clear favoritism towards the russians at the moment . Would've been good to see a little nerf on the sc before this tourney took place . Since all games won , were by the soviets with the sc play
1 Jul 2013, 12:01 PM
#10
Posts: 522
Germans can win, though it requires alot of skill. Imo both players were unprepared for each other's soviet strats both of which are very strong. However after the first couple of games ostheer played a bit better culminating in G5 where Sepha threw it away after a dominating start.
1 Jul 2013, 12:02 PM
#11
Posts: 49
All I am saying is it was 1 unit in particular that players went too ALL THE TIME, why, because its OP. Yes both players got to play Russians twice and then it was VP thing to decide 5th game, but did it ever cross Aimstrongs mind to go German, I dont think so and that in itself poses a question of balance. If both sides were even then the German side may have been an option but ALAS it was not to be.
Running a Tournament with Fundamentally one side being at a disadvantage and just making it about who loses the 'best' as Germans doesn't really equate to good game play. Defend it all you like but this is absolute fact. I am not American but I will give you an example from a real life perspective lets say the NFL Superbowl was best of 5 with only 1 quaterback available he plays 2 games for each side then 1 for the team who 'loses' the best. You see the problem here.
Running a Tournament with Fundamentally one side being at a disadvantage and just making it about who loses the 'best' as Germans doesn't really equate to good game play. Defend it all you like but this is absolute fact. I am not American but I will give you an example from a real life perspective lets say the NFL Superbowl was best of 5 with only 1 quaterback available he plays 2 games for each side then 1 for the team who 'loses' the best. You see the problem here.
1 Jul 2013, 12:55 PM
#12
Posts: 337
You are getting way to hung up on the M3's, do you think 1 M3 that Aimstrong used just blatantly won him the games?
Then you're really kidding yourself with a 30+ kill sniper, combined arms, the teching choices going T4 for that one SU-85 to then fielding T34/85's instead of spending all the fuel on the basebuildings.
Also Sepha doesn't usually just queue up that many M3s as he did in the first match, I talked to him after the liveshow, he had scouted Aimstrongs replays (not unusual at all in CoH's history of tournaments, might be worth looking into to make them private) and knew about the massive T1, and he decided a heavy investment of 100 fuel (I think he built a total of 5, might have been 4) to counter that huge T1 from Aimstrong.
All your facts you are claiming all over the forums about various things is all just theorycrafting at best.
TL;DR M3's are not an "I win button" even if they are powerful (and also on the choppingblock now most likely).
Then you're really kidding yourself with a 30+ kill sniper, combined arms, the teching choices going T4 for that one SU-85 to then fielding T34/85's instead of spending all the fuel on the basebuildings.
Also Sepha doesn't usually just queue up that many M3s as he did in the first match, I talked to him after the liveshow, he had scouted Aimstrongs replays (not unusual at all in CoH's history of tournaments, might be worth looking into to make them private) and knew about the massive T1, and he decided a heavy investment of 100 fuel (I think he built a total of 5, might have been 4) to counter that huge T1 from Aimstrong.
All your facts you are claiming all over the forums about various things is all just theorycrafting at best.
TL;DR M3's are not an "I win button" even if they are powerful (and also on the choppingblock now most likely).
1 Jul 2013, 12:58 PM
#13
Posts: 1582 | Subs: 4
If it wouldn't have been the scoutcar it would have been abuse of "hit the dirt", or 6 men weapon teams, or whatever... Balance is not as easy. The metagame will always change according to adjustments of units and it is very hard to predict the outcome...At least its not as easy as saying "nerf the SC and balance would be 100% better"
1 Jul 2013, 13:05 PM
#14
Posts: 49
I know its not ALL about that 1 unit but it is just a little too convenient that even in the Quarter finals matches that I watched, (7 games) the 5 games the Russian won they built them the 2 games they lost they didn't build them. I will stop now as I feel I have made my point. I just hope it is changed along with a few other units and abilities too from both sides but that is for another discussion. I am sorry for being so negative, I love the game and I REALLY want it to succeed its just glaring things like this, especially at lower levels with newer players being thrashed doesn't really help to promote the game as a whole and attract new players or keep existing ones. Thanks for taking the time to take an interest in the post anyway I'll save myself for some different discussions later lol.
1 Jul 2013, 13:11 PM
#15
Posts: 3709 | Subs: 2
If there's any place where balance doesn't matter is at lower level. People there could just win their matches by improving their play instead of looking at balance issues. You can fix whatever you want, a better player is always going to thrash a new one.
That said I do agree it would be more fun and intresting for them too. And the fix are actually coming, so if that was the point of the discussion then we can call it done.
That said I do agree it would be more fun and intresting for them too. And the fix are actually coming, so if that was the point of the discussion then we can call it done.
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