Making T1 more appealing

What do you guy think of simply making the AT nades upgrade at the Soviet HQ give cons AND penals the option for the AT nades.

I think that within itself will have people go T1 without any other major "buffs" to any units.

I like penals, I think they are a solid infantry early / mid game to burn dem germans out.

(on a side note, it would be nice if relic went back or fixed penal satchel charge to blow up buildings)

Any thoughts?

Penals don't need to overlap with cons in role even more, they need to have their own, preferably long range oriented one, akin to rifles(basically 100% dps buff at long range only, cost to 280-290 and call it a day).

Give factions proper, meaningful, fuel-expensive global upgrades. 90% of the game's shitty teching problems come directly from its lack of proper global upgrades.

I mean, imagine CoH1 without rifle upgrades or Wehr vet. Game would've been boring as fuck, just people rushing to the best higher tech tier so they actually have something to spend their fuel on that isn't complete shit. Why extend your T1 as Americans when you can't invest in BAR and essentially double the effectiveness of your infantry? Why extend your T2 as Wehr when you can't invest in survivability with vet? It's the same sentiment with CoH2 right now, you have all this fuel and the only way to spend it is to tech to a higher tier. It's not a decision you have to make, it's just what you do, because it's the only thing that makes sense.

Go back and watch some super-old CoH1 replays from the v1.x days, back when people didn't buy vet or rifle upgrades. Then watch some replays from the final CoH1 season of SNF. I really doubt anybody is nostalgic for the days of one-dimensional tech rushing.

Go back and watch some super-old CoH1 replays from the v1.x days, back when people didn't buy vet or rifle upgrades.

err? T2 terror till tiger ace and vet with medic was super popular as was the very tried and tested 4x BARs or the 3x nade surprise.

Oh noes inverse is here to talk about global upgrades inb4 epic coh1 vs coh2 battle

Oh noes inverse is here to talk about global upgrades inb4 epic coh1 vs coh2 battle

Maybe because it's still the best solution to the problem mentioned in this thread, which is part of a broader problem that has been around since alpha? I've yet to see a solution suggested that would address this as effectively and completely as global upgrades would.

It has nothing to do with CoH1 vs. CoH2 unless you explicitly make it about that. Global upgrades aren't a CoH1 invention, they're an RTS mainstay. It just makes the most sense to compare the game to CoH1 because of their obvious similarities.

Oh noes inverse is here to talk about global upgrades inb4 epic coh1 vs coh2 battle

Yes, CoH2 is infallible, nothing from the predecessor could improve CoH2.

T1 with Penals is already very useful on maps like Trois-Point or Lierneux.
No need for "free" upgrades. If anything it's OKW which should pay for unlocks.
Fewer free upgrades we have, better.

but t1 needs some improvement. i think something needs to be added

Maybe because it's still the best solution to the problem mentioned in this thread, which is part of a broader problem that has been around since alpha? I've yet to see a solution suggested that would address this as effectively and completely as global upgrades would.

It has nothing to do with CoH1 vs. CoH2 unless you explicitly make it about that. Global upgrades aren't a CoH1 invention, they're an RTS mainstay. It just makes the most sense to compare the game to CoH1 because of their obvious similarities.

Man Inverse, if you only highlighted and saved that one twitch broadcast you talked about this in length. You nailed it down perfectly why linear teching is a terrible idea for RTS's in general.

Invis 1 post for offtopic.

On: Penals do not need AT nades. They just need to fulfill a bit better the role of glasscannon for SU.

They just suffer from powercreep coming from both WFA and UKF.

Didn't you notice, Inverse? Relic listened to you when they designed the Brits.

Too bad they gimped them in so many critical areas, it's a really fun faction to play otherwise.

That still leaves all the other factions untouched though.

I would add that there's an even better tool than global upgrades: sidegrades.

While global upgrades offer the dilemma of "when" to get them for maximum impact, sidegrades offer the additional question of "which". They imply a multiplication of roles and depth of play, and if they're not mutually exclusive (like hammer and anvil) then they're all the more interesting.

Invis 1 post for offtopic.

On: Penals do not need AT nades. They just need to fulfill a bit better the role of glasscannon for SU.

They just suffer from powercreep coming from both WFA and UKF.

That post was a direct response to the post above it, which clarified my previous post...

Give factions proper, meaningful, fuel-expensive global upgrades. 90% of the game's shitty teching problems come directly from its lack of proper global upgrades.

I mean, imagine CoH1 without rifle upgrades or Wehr vet. Game would've been boring as fuck, just people rushing to the best higher tech tier so they actually have something to spend their fuel on that isn't complete shit. Why extend your T1 as Americans when you can't invest in BAR and essentially double the effectiveness of your infantry? Why extend your T2 as Wehr when you can't invest in survivability with vet? It's the same sentiment with CoH2 right now, you have all this fuel and the only way to spend it is to tech to a higher tier. It's not a decision you have to make, it's just what you do, because it's the only thing that makes sense.

Go back and watch some super-old CoH1 replays from the v1.x days, back when people didn't buy vet or rifle upgrades. Then watch some replays from the final CoH1 season of SNF. I really doubt anybody is nostalgic for the days of one-dimensional tech rushing.

Without redesigning factions I think making Muni caches cost fuel but buffing them would be the only way of implementing something like this. (Remove fuel cache, imbalances big team games anyway.)

Hell, let Ost build repair stations for fuel, USF observation post for fuel, OKW could get something that decreases cost of abilities in that sector. Soviets could get medical station they could build for fuel, and UKF out of all the factions could get maybe a MP cache or something.

Expanding on the cache system is the only current way of increasing non-teching fuel sinks that's organic and doesn't demand redesigns.

globalllllllllllllll upgradeeeeeee

Give factions proper, meaningful, fuel-expensive global upgrades. 90% of the game's shitty teching problems come directly from its lack of proper global upgrades.

Yes, we need this. The community wants more interesting global upgrades.

Man Inverse, if you only highlighted and saved that one twitch broadcast you talked about this in length. You nailed it down perfectly why linear teching is a terrible idea for RTS's in general.

Would have loved to have heard his thoughts in detail. I remember Inverse posting about non-linear tech at least a year ago and why COH2 needs it. It is by far the best idea to come out of this community.

Lets stay on topic pls.
reduce aim time on soviet sniper
Increase Penals long range accuracy/ adjust movement penalty.
As Katitof pointed out you dont want cons to overlap. Maybe give penals PTRS or some sort of light AT or the AT nades that come with anti-tank doctrine.