Poll: Should OKW Volks have their shrecks removed/modified?

An interesting idea, yet somehow I feel that this would lead to just as frustrating, if not more frustrating, play for allies. There would still be incentive to blob volks against any allied vehicles, especially light vehicles. One faust off on a light to snare it, while you could either follow up with 2 more fausts to finish it or just plink away with AT rifles. 1 schreck = 3 fausts. I'd much rather deal with kiting 1 schreck than one flanking Volks getting off a snare while the others rush in with AT rifles/more fausts. I'm willing to bet just about everyone else would feel the same. Honestly, Looney said it best, yet everyone on these forums tends to ignore any voice of reason:

The range of faust is nowhere near shrek. Micro is also a lot more intensive. it's not A+move... it's F+select unit. I do not hear about allies complaining about grenadier faust spam because faust snare isn't a problem. Micro, keep your distance. M20 gets 2 shotted by shreks. there's not kiting... if i take a hit by one squad, i better run away and repair... there's no continuance combat/kiting involved.

Isn't 1 flanking volks and 1-2 more from another side to kill a light vehicle more rewarding? it rewards tactics and flanking... 2-3 volks up front can just destroy an light vehicle...

So i totally disagree with you here. OKW would actually have to split up their blob to counter things like how allies has to multi-prong attack MGs. How often do you do see volks split up and attack? nah, it's easier just to attack together and toss a flame nade.

and again this is only related to 3v3+ games. I feel 1v1 and 2v2 it's not much of an issue. and you quoted Looney which i already mentioned does not have much experience in large team games. as he is mainly 1s and 2s.

Remove shrecks entirely from okw faction and watch okw get stomped every time they try to get healing.

Why should the primary dps dealer for early-mid game who also has to repair and lay traps, also be relegated to the AT role? Lol thats asinine. They sure as hell don't belong on obers either.

Make new squad for 280mp put in medic truck. 4 men, 90 muni panzershreck. Fixed.

the problem is they have 99% pen against every allied tank at max range, which is way huge.

The range of faust is nowhere near shrek. Micro is also a lot more intensive. it's not A+move... it's F+select unit. I do not hear about allies complaining about grenadier faust spam because faust snare isn't a problem. Micro, keep your distance. M20 gets 2 shotted by shreks. there's not kiting... if i take a hit by one squad, i better run away and repair... there's no continuance combat/kiting involved.

Isn't 1 flanking volks and 1-2 more from another side to kill a light vehicle more rewarding? it rewards tactics and flanking... 2-3 volks up front can just destroy an light vehicle...

So i totally disagree with you here. OKW would actually have to split up their blob to counter things like how allies has to multi-prong attack MGs. How often do you do see volks split up and attack? nah, it's easier just to attack together and toss a flame nade.

and again this is only related to 3v3+ games. I feel 1v1 and 2v2 it's not much of an issue. and you quoted Looney which i already mentioned does not have much experience in large team games. as he is mainly 1s and 2s.

The effective range of a schreck however is comparable to a faust. Allied players don't typically need to worry about Gren fausts because Ost has so many other munition costing abilities and upgrades while OKW has very few non-doctrine choices (however I've seen players like SPrice purposely float munitions against USF for enough fausts to take out the first light vehicle). Microing and keeping your distance is just as effective against schrecks as it is against fausts if you stay just at the max range of your light vehicle, and if you bounce between max range and just outside of max the aim time prevents schrecks from firing. Even if volks are able to get a rocket off when youre sitting at max range its extremely unlikely it will connect. Upgraded M20 will take 3 shots btw, and it has the ability to fall back behind lines and repair using the vehicle crew and jump right back in.

While flanking with a squad outside of your opponents vision and being able to get a faust off is rewarding, it's even more rewarding to punish volks blobs as allies using suppression, indirect fire, mines etc. And surpisingly enough, it's so much easier to do than it is to actually use a volks blob to take out medium armor against any half competent opponent. I'm actually happy to see an OKW player group the majority of his infantry together, it means I can outcap him, and that I can force a retreat on him rather easily with indirect. And even better, If i know the location of his BGHQ, I can continue to punish with things like rocket arty and white phosphorous, or go in for a big crush.

I understand that you're speaking mostly in terms of experiences inside of 3v3+, but balance on those levels has more to do with inflated resource incomes, map resource lay outs, and team coordination than anything else. Making balance changes to all game modes in order to try and fix issues within those 2 game modes would be a terrible balance decision and if i understood this thread correctly is not the prerogative ATM.

I also left this in that same thread, also ignored by everyone:

Fausts are fire and forget, don't miss (unless those weird faust bugs still exist) and are less than half the current upgrade on Volks. The reason you don't see this currently is because 1. Only fausts accessible to OKW are doctrinal, and come on an expensive unit that isn't spammable and 2. Ostheer has so many other munitions upgrades and mines that you're in most cases incentivized to spend your munitions on upgrades and other abilities rather than float them for fausts; This isn't really an issue for OKW, where their meta has more or less revolved around their core infantry since their existence, of which only have the one pschreck upgrade.

Since the resource change I've never had munitions issues as OKW. Removing one of their highest costing munition upgrades and replacing it with a one time use before cooldown, slightly less damage snare that costs significantly less... What do you think is going to happen? You're still gonna have blobs, they're still gonna be a significant threat to medium armor (probably even more so because now they'll snare after 1-2 fausts), and on top of that people think its a good suggestion to give them even more AI capability? Please.

The effective range of a schreck however is comparable to a faust. Allied players don't typically need to worry about Gren fausts because Ost has so many other munition costing abilities

faust range = 18 meters

schreck range = 35 meters.

and most wehr player will keep at least 30-60 mu on hand incase of vehicle.

faust range = 18 meters

schreck range = 35 meters.

and most wehr player will keep at least 30-60 mu on hand incase of vehicle.

not according to this site:

faust max range = 30 http://www.coh2-stats.com/ballistic_weapons/panzerfaust_atw_mp

Schreck max range = 35 http://www.coh2-stats.com/ballistic_weapons/panzerschreck_atw_mp

Good luck hitting a properly micro'd tank at max range with a schreck. If proposed changes were made, OKW would have an easier time floating munis for fausts than Ost currently does.

not according to this site:

faust max range = 30 http://www.coh2-stats.com/ballistic_weapons/panzerfaust_atw_mp

Schreck max range = 35 http://www.coh2-stats.com/ballistic_weapons/panzerschreck_atw_mp

Good luck hitting a properly micro'd tank at max range with a schreck. If proposed changes were made, OKW would have an easier time floating munis for fausts than Ost currently does.

weapon range != ability range.

the faust ability itself will only activate on a target inside a 18 meter radius.

IIRC the weapon range affect how far the projectile will track. The faust will "miss" if the target vehicle can leave the weapon range before the faust fire. However, the vehicle needs to be within 18 meter of the grenadier first.

weapon range != ability range.

the faust ability itself will only activate on a target inside a 18 meter radius.

IIRC the weapon range affect how far the projectile will track. The faust will "miss" if the target vehicle can leave the weapon range before the faust fire. However, the vehicle needs to be within 18 meter of the grenadier first.

Good to know. Still, I maintain that I personally would find it harder to deal with spammable snares than 90 muni at upgrades, especially when the infantry carrying those upgrades are commonly grouped up and susceptible to suppression and indirect. As for the faust missing if outside 30 range, I don't think so. I've seen some crazy long range fausts.

Just don't completely remove schreck.Replacing it with faust will be a big nerf. Giving them to strumpioneers is a solusion.Someone says they're busy but you can build 4 strumpioneers,2 for busy work 2 for the shreck. But still have some problems.What upgrade will be given to volks?Someone says stg44. But we have strumpioneers already. And the USF zooks blob should be nerfed by comparison. It's the same issue.

too hard to use comet? or double upgrades on your infantry?

OKW pays 90MU for a schreck and 90MU for a f*ckin G43, and you simply deny to use your f*cking infantry with your 60MU upgrades to counter volks with schrecks?

Well fine... make grens able to get another LMG for 60MU and because i refuse to use P4s against your infantry...

keep performance at range the same, cut dmg by half, each upgrade gives 2x schrecks instead.

that will cut anti infantry dps by 40% per upgrade instead of current 20%. infantry will have a visible advantage against volks spam.

Excellent !

I really appreciate the votes.

keep performance at range the same, cut dmg by half, each upgrade gives 2x schrecks instead.

that will cut anti infantry dps by 40% per upgrade instead of current 20%. infantry will have a visible advantage against volks spam.

Bad idea.
The schrecks do 120 dmg per shot while zooks do 80.

Only issue with shreks is ability to A-move and hit lights and mediums consistently

Good to know. Still, I maintain that I personally would find it harder to deal with spammable snares than 90 muni at upgrades, especially when the infantry carrying those upgrades are commonly grouped up and susceptible to suppression and indirect. As for the faust missing if outside 30 range, I don't think so. I've seen some crazy long range fausts.

conscript, grenadier, rifleman, and ostruppen all have at snare. The game have already proven that at snare spam is not a problem.

Fun little fact, Sturmpios used to have shrecks (thus they have the voice lines for them).

Lol...wut?

Being a fanboy? What sort of? More like being reasonable...

Anyway, having durable spammable mainline infantry with AT is simple bullshit from design perspective.

I don't see any problem with Sturmpios and shrecks. They aren't spammable, and the quick veterancy for them isn't much of a deal. Their repair bonus isnt great, that price u can 2 CEs -.-.

As for their multirole, why not? Atleast the faction would be unique somehow...

Pls stop being a "strategist"

if they give shrecks to stumrpios it weill mean no shrecks at all. In 1v1 you can maximally make 2 pios without bleeding like pig.

You will have one with shreck and one with sweeper. So your mid game composition will be something like:

luchs , 3 volks , one stg squad - stumrpio and one shreck squad

And USA will have 2 rifles with 1 bar, cpatain with 2 zoooks , 2 normal riflemen and a stuart.

Guess whitch one of them will win ?

(rifles will roflstomp your infantry and stuart + captain will hold against shrecks rather easily).


I think we both play different gamemodes and that is the problem

if they give shrecks to stumrpios it weill mean no shrecks at all. In 1v1 you can maximally make 2 pios without bleeding like pig.

You will have one with shreck and one with sweeper. So your mid game composition will be something like:

luchs , 3 volks , one stg squad - stumrpio and one shreck squad

And USA will have 2 rifles with 1 bar, cpatain with 2 zoooks , 2 normal riflemen and a stuart.

Guess whitch one of them will win ?

(rifles will roflstomp your infantry and stuart + captain will hold against shrecks rather easily).


I think we both play different gamemodes and that is the problem

Or OKW player can go BHQ with 2 Pio, 3 Volk, elite infantry. USF doesn't always have mines so theres no issue upgrading both Pio squads to two shreks each.

I'm not disagreeing with you, Shreks on Pios is stupid, but it wouldn't at all turn the pendulum of the OKW vs USF match up in usfs favor. It would still be okws game to lose from 5 minutes onward.

if they give shrecks to stumrpios it weill mean no shrecks at all. In 1v1 you can maximally make 2 pios without bleeding like pig.

You will have one with shreck and one with sweeper. So your mid game composition will be something like:

luchs , 3 volks , one stg squad - stumrpio and one shreck squad

And USA will have 2 rifles with 1 bar, cpatain with 2 zoooks , 2 normal riflemen and a stuart.

Guess whitch one of them will win ?

(rifles will roflstomp your infantry and stuart + captain will hold against shrecks rather easily).


I think we both play different gamemodes and that is the problem

You do know that Sturmpios would have double shrecks (like they used to). Enough to hold off light armor with fausts and 1 raketen.

And mid game would be more like this: luchs, 3 volks (prob some with weapon upgrade), 1 Sturmpio with shrecks (as sweepers are not needed vs USA unless someone tries inf. company). 1 raketen and prob some doctrinal infantry/mg-34. Maybe a few mines...should be enough to stall the allies.

Guess which one of them will win? Who uses his units better.

(And take a look at my playedcard before commenting something like not playing the same mod)

Or OKW player can go BHQ with 2 Pio, 3 Volk, elite infantry. USF doesn't always have mines so theres no issue upgrading both Pio squads to two shreks each.

I'm not disagreeing with you, Shreks on Pios is stupid, but it wouldn't at all turn the pendulum of the OKW vs USF match up in usfs favor. It would still be okws game to lose from 5 minutes onward.

USF will plant even more mines when he see that you went double Pio with Shrek, USF infantries will still rape OKW infantry, Double Stuart into Pershing works very well