Blobbing

Hi, just wanted to discuss this problem again. Recent patch with OKW redesign didin't address this issue which imo is most prevalent with western front armies factions (other factions also can blob their mainline inf, but problem with okw/usf blobs is that they are so self sufficient and can counter any threat armored or otherwise eliminating the need for combined arms). My suggestions to solve this issue would be:
a) for OKW: 1. remove shreks from volks and create smaller volks unit, possibly priced similarly to base volks squad that can be upgraded with at weaponry (tank hunter squads or sth like that). They could be also placed in other tech building. This would force okw players to plan in advace and economise on their manpower, not just volkspam. 2. remove incindiary grenades from volks, because this gives them too much flexibility. Give incendiary nades to stormpios instead since they are more expensive and not that spammable and much more prone to get wiped due to smaller squad size.
b) for USF: 1. make zookas miss more vs light vehicles like 222, esp at longer ranges an while moving, because now zooka blobs just make these units almost useless (their effective usage time window is way too narrow, they are only effective if rushed). 2. rifles should not be able to pick zookas, only rear echelon squads and elite inf.
What do u think? Have any other solutions?

Calliope, brummbar, pwerfer, katy, KV-2, ISU, ST, croc.

All factions have blob counters.
Use them.

If opponent is blobbing in early game, it means 70% of the map should be yours as he isn't able to keep up with capping.

And who upgrades riflemans and elite infantry with zooks, it's like give single panzershrek to grenadiers/obersoldaten instead of lmg.

Blobs are dumb and I have seen plenty of good players counter them. As Katitof noted, use your counters. US infantry blobs are fun to wreck with Stukas and Rakatenwerfers.

Calliope, brummbar, pwerfer, katy, KV-2, ISU, ST, croc.

All factions have blob counters.
Use them.

If opponent is blobbing in early game, it means 70% of the map should be yours as he isn't able to keep up with capping.

This is true in 1v1's but in larger games 2v2+ blobbing is EXTREMELY effective. I feel like Volk blobs and rifle/RE blobs are all too common in these game modes and need to be addressed as 4v4 map design and balance wont allow for easy counters.

MGs...

but yeah blobs are a problem in this game because its way to effective... the received accuracy modifiers in cover should be higher to support using cover instead of blobbing.

Take schreks away from volks implement the 4 man tank buster squad and give volks an AI upgrade if they revert them to how they were before or they will just be vet 5 AI monsters when okw has non-doct ai squads already, give USF a tier zero .50 cal and replace .50 cal that was under lieut with a mortar.

main infantry shouldnt have shreks/zooks, Volks, Rifles but specialized squads can e.g. Grens cant be upgraded with Shreks but PG can.


OR

if there is 3 squads of the same kind group together within a close proximity, they will be all be given a negative status, e.g. 33% reduction in accuracy

MGs...

the received accuracy modifiers in cover should be higher to support using cover instead of blobbing.

That's a great idea that I would like to see bumped up: cover

1. lure blob into demo charge.

2. Profit.

As stated above, 3 units of the same type or more should received accuracy modifiers against them. But only if they been together for 5 seconds or more. A symbol should appear over the affected infantry.

The only blobs that are semi issues are early blobs vs USF and mid game blobs vs OKW. At all other stages and all other armies blob counters are readily available-use them.

If people are putting zooks on Rifles instead of Echelons they just wasted a shit ton of manpower not just the base cost of rifles but reinforce cost as well. I use zooks on 2x echelons all the time with Captain. They fuck shit up against vehicles when blobbed.

Why should CoH reduce itself to offering players tools to: BLOB and then tools to COUNTER-BLOB.

Seems horribly simplistic.

I'm all for combined armed and flank-playstyle.

This is true in 1v1's but in larger games 2v2+ blobbing is EXTREMELY effective. I feel like Volk blobs and rifle/RE blobs are all too common in these game modes and need to be addressed as 4v4 map design and balance wont allow for easy counters.

Ya, I have to agree.

Actually, soviet Defensive commander (community one) works pretty good vs blobs.

DShK pins everything in 1-2 bursts, and HM-38 kills it if the blob would'nt insta-retreat.

They come pretty early (both at 2 CP) and sort of reliable (very good vs OKW, not so vs ost because of snipers)

45mm M-42 counters light armor too.

This doctrine seems pretty good vs early-mid OKW, but has nothing to do with the late-game one, aside for T-34+Su85 spam.

45mm M-42 counters light armor too.

Not really, it doesn't.
Its not accurate enough to even be a threat to kubel, unless massed.

Single one is ineffective regardless of target you shoot at and the moment you've got 2nd one, you've lost big one as single ZiS is much cheaper, scales and is effective vs all armor with added utility of barrage.

Single demo on the blobs way is also more effective then DSHK and 120mm combo.

If people are putting zooks on Rifles instead of Echelons they just wasted a shit ton of manpower not just the base cost of rifles but reinforce cost as well. I use zooks on 2x echelons all the time with Captain. They fuck shit up against vehicles when blobbed.

yes unfortunately rear echelons cost upped to 200 and reinforce upped to 25? 25 to 28 riflemen reinforce...

I usually don't have any spare MP for 2nd rear echelon nowadays... just 1

use blob control units and blob counters.

Mines , mortars , snipers , mgs are your freidn early game

late game use AI tanks and rocket artillery.


or outblob them with superior positioning

For all those who posted advices how to deal with blobs - U completely missed the point of my post. This is not "asking for advice" and not even "balance cry" thread but a thread to disscuss possible options how to make gameplay more tactically diverse and enjoyble FOR/AGAINST USF/OKW. Just to be clear - I can deal with blobbers very effectively (if, of course skill disparity between me and opponent is not too big) and I can blob very effectively myself (3 volks + 2 fussiliers with upg rifles + sturm officer and target them ability wipes shocks squad in 2-3 seconds).

Blobing pisses me off because it takes less skill than using combined arms and carefully positioning your units but at the same time is very good tactics for USF/OKW (note I do NOT mention vanilla factions or even brits here).

All counters that you mentioned are late game expensive units and I don't have problems with blobs IF I manage to get them, which sometimes is very difficult if the opponent is half competent and uses some basic tactis like:
1) scouts with single unit before sending his blob to attack - early game counters like mgs and mortars are ineffective vs smart players who know how to flank - once u are flanked by a blob usually u end up loosing your team weapons and give them to your opponent what is even worse.
2) ambushes with blobs isolated squads by using fog of war and granades as an opener causing fast squadwipes.
3) And yes, I usually manage to capture more territory vs blobbers, but of U are a smart blobber u can go for enemy cutoff points that are not that hard to capture with superior force especailly if as I mentioned above u managed to bleed your opponents mp by an early blob attack or even wipe a squad or steal team weapon. One u have cutoff points, u just have to patrol your blob between them and early territory gain advantage is almost nutralized. Recapturing these points might be extremely difficult because u are dealing with MOBILE superior force, which, above all, as I mentioned before, is effective vs ALL THREATS so the blobber doesn't even need any other resourece advantage except for manpower.

And lastly, although I said this thread is not for disscussing tactics, but please don't suggest heavy and even rocket arty vs blobs cause only deaf/blind/stupid/never before hit by arty (aka noob) won't reposition their units once they hear arty firing in the distance. Arty counters static positions, low mobility units (team weapons) - and by counters i mean not necessarily kills them but merely forces them to reposition which with a timmed attack might be just as effective - ironically units that u consider blob cointers and not blobs because vs blobs they are pure rng.

Why should CoH reduce itself to offering players tools to: BLOB and then tools to COUNTER-BLOB.

Seems horribly simplistic.

I'm all for combined armed and flank-playstyle.



Ya, I have to agree.

I forgot to mention that I play 2v2 most of the time.