Hey there!
So here we have the mighty british medium tank, the Comet. Which in real life had 70-102 mm frontal armor (around 70 in the front of the chassis, and 102 on the front of the turret).
On the other hand, we have the Jagdpanzer4, which in real life had the 75mm PaK42 cannon, and used the PzGr.39/42 (a armor-piercing capped ballistic capped shell [APCBC]) which was able to penetrate a 149mm thick steel at 1000m, and 168mm at 500m.
However, in the game, the Jagdpanzer have a really hard time penetrating the frontal armor of the Comet, and doing damage. By hard time I mean 8 out of 10 shots will bounce.
I'm not even mentioning that the Comet almost never bounces from the sloped (!!!) frontal armor of a Panther, but the Panther bounces pretty nicely from the 90° frontal armor of the Comet...physics at it's finest...
In my opinion, a little bit of nerf would be handy, not too much, just make every second shot go through, and cause damage, from the Jgdpz4.
Best regards.
Comet armor too much?
27 Dec 2015, 00:10 AM
#1
Posts: 21
27 Dec 2015, 00:23 AM
#2
Posts: 230
Permanently Bannednah
27 Dec 2015, 00:26 AM
#3
Posts: 1122
Yeah and also panthers broke on regular basis and all kinds of other fat cats were bombed by dominant allied air support into oblivion.
It is a game, not WW2 simulator, balance comes first.
It is a game, not WW2 simulator, balance comes first.
27 Dec 2015, 00:30 AM
#4
Posts: 919
As Jadame said, its not a historical simulation but a game. You would have 10 Shermans for one superior Panther and most german heavy tanks would be destroyed by allied aircraft once spotted or destroyed by germans themselves on their retreat.
It is all about balance and Comet is quite comparable to Panther, so gamewise it is okay.
It is all about balance and Comet is quite comparable to Panther, so gamewise it is okay.
27 Dec 2015, 00:49 AM
#5
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
Only issue with the Comet aside from its bugging abilities that have ridiculous range at 80 is its rear armour is high at 180 which is better than most medium tanks, on par with a stock PIV.
Sure its a flanker and all that, but it makes the poor Panzer IV cry when its bouncing rear shots off the Comet which should still be punished for showing its butt to enemy fire.
All heavy tanks and vehicles could use a rear armour reduction though.
Sure its a flanker and all that, but it makes the poor Panzer IV cry when its bouncing rear shots off the Comet which should still be punished for showing its butt to enemy fire.
All heavy tanks and vehicles could use a rear armour reduction though.
27 Dec 2015, 00:55 AM
#6
Posts: 392
Hey there!
So here we have the mighty british medium tank, the Comet. Which in real life had 70-102 mm frontal armor (around 70 in the front of the chassis, and 102 on the front of the turret).
On the other hand, we have the Jagdpanzer4, which in real life had the 75mm PaK42 cannon, and used the PzGr.39/42 (a armor-piercing capped ballistic capped shell [APCBC]) which was able to penetrate a 149mm thick steel at 1000m, and 168mm at 500m.
However, in the game, the Jagdpanzer have a really hard time penetrating the frontal armor of the Comet, and doing damage. By hard time I mean 8 out of 10 shots will bounce.
I'm not even mentioning that the Comet almost never bounces from the sloped (!!!) frontal armor of a Panther, but the Panther bounces pretty nicely from the 90° frontal armor of the Comet...physics at it's finest...
In my opinion, a little bit of nerf would be handy, not too much, just make every second shot go through, and cause damage, from the Jgdpz4.
Best regards.
lets forget for a fact that the Panther bounces AP shells from the ISU-152 a known multi-role assault gun that could be used as a heavy tank destroyer and bust any medium/heavy tank the Axis had.
Or how inaccurate and unreliable the IS-2 is at penetrating Panthers armor with its 122mm gun.
or how we have special high explocive penetrating rounds for the KT gun WHILE the elefant and the Pak 43 do not.
if it was a full blown simulator you wouldnt be seeing Comets hitting your tanks but Fireflys one shotting them.
In the end if you cant beat the arcade comet you wont beat the real life Firefly.
in other words a realistic simulator wouldnt solve your problem but ADD EVEN MORE PROBLEMS to begin with.
so its best to accept the game as it is and understand theirs RNG involved in every fight that can affect the outcome of a battle.
27 Dec 2015, 00:56 AM
#7
Posts: 392
Only issue with the Comet aside from its bugging abilities that have ridiculous range at 80 is its rear armour is high at 180 which is better than most medium tanks, on par with a stock PIV.
Sure its a flanker and all that, but it makes the poor Panzer IV cry when its bouncing rear shots off the Comet which should still be punished for showing its butt to enemy fire.
All heavy tanks and vehicles could use a rear armour reduction though.
or better add side armor
27 Dec 2015, 00:57 AM
#8
Posts: 174
The last things the Brits need are more nerfs.
27 Dec 2015, 00:59 AM
#9
Posts: 175
However, in the game, the Jagdpanzer have a really hard time penetrating the frontal armor of the Comet, and doing damage. By hard time I mean 8 out of 10 shots will bounce.
I'm not even mentioning that the Comet almost never bounces from the sloped (!!!) frontal armor of a Panther, but the Panther bounces pretty nicely from the 90° frontal armor of the Comet...physics at it's finest...
Ignoring the historical arguments, here is the unit stats relevant to the points you are making:
(vet 0, pen at max range)
Comet
Frontal armor: 290
Pen: 170
JPIV
Pen: 170
Panther
Frontal armor: 320
Pen: 220
JPIV chance to pen frontal armor of comet: 58%. In other words, your claim that 8 of 10 shots will bounce is false.
Comet vs Panther
Comet chance to pen Panther: 53%
Panther chance to pen Comet: 75%
Your claim that Comet never pen Panther but deflects the Panther shots nicely is false.
27 Dec 2015, 02:37 AM
#10
1 
Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
It's not a problem with the Comet but with the JPIV, which is at a fine point for the cost.
Tobis "Complete Throw"
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
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Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
27 Dec 2015, 02:40 AM
#11
4 Posts: 444
nah
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27 Dec 2015, 02:40 AM
#12
Posts: 403
panther armor too much?
My place in the ladder is irrelevant as long as I am matched with opponents of the same rank and play all factions (balance at place 1000+ is no different from balance in top 100 if we consider what I said before the brakets) so I don't care about your assertion which is also irrelevant.
27 Dec 2015, 04:23 AM
#13
Posts: 513
yeah lets make everything realistic, panthers and tigers break down every 30 seconds and need repair, and every 20 seconds an allied carpet bomb goes over the axis bases
27 Dec 2015, 04:50 AM
#14
Posts: 738
Only issue with the Comet aside from its bugging abilities that have ridiculous range at 80 is its rear armour is high at 180 which is better than most medium tanks, on par with a stock PIV.
Sure its a flanker and all that, but it makes the poor Panzer IV cry when its bouncing rear shots off the Comet which should still be punished for showing its butt to enemy fire.
500mp+185 fuel+Anvil upgrade costs
If you nerf the armour to being reliably penned by a PIV it would need a hefty cost decrease.
27 Dec 2015, 05:58 AM
#15
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
500mp+185 fuel+Anvil upgrade costs
If you nerf the armour to being reliably penned by a PIV it would need a hefty cost decrease.
For the rear armour? Does that mean all heavy tanks should get a cost reduction when a rear armour nerf is implemented?
Medium tanks should be a threat to their heavier counterparts if they manage to get around as it means they're diving in and trying to position against a superior enemy while probably being exposed to other dangers and over-extension. When mediums have a better chance punching through the front armour of another medium tank than the rear of a heavy, something's wrong.
27 Dec 2015, 11:27 AM
#16
Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3
Please guys, stop using history or real life for determining units stats and performance.
Think of COH2 as a strategy game, different units that serve different purposes and thus have stats according to their purpose. ONLY then comes the WW2 aspect, by giving those units WW2 models & background. Hence Coh2 is a strategy game with a WW2 background. It's not a WW2 simulator.
In my opinion the comet is fine.
Think of COH2 as a strategy game, different units that serve different purposes and thus have stats according to their purpose. ONLY then comes the WW2 aspect, by giving those units WW2 models & background. Hence Coh2 is a strategy game with a WW2 background. It's not a WW2 simulator.
In my opinion the comet is fine.
If you need to know stats of certain unit: http://stat.coh2.hu
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27 Dec 2015, 12:11 PM
#17
Posts: 1217
Please guys, stop using history or real life for determining units stats and performance.Agreed, but with some limitations: It is inspired by actual events. That means: Panther > T-34, IS-2 > Panzer IV etc. If they broke that line, it would be silly. That being said, I´m a bit irritated that the Comet has so high and the Churchill so low armor values. I guess they made the Comet´s armor so strong so people would actually have a reason to use it next to the Churchill.
Think of COH2 as a strategy game, different units that serve different purposes and thus have stats according to their purpose. ONLY then comes the WW2 aspect, by giving those units WW2 models & background. Hence Coh2 is a strategy game with a WW2 background. It's not a WW2 simulator.
In my opinion the comet is fine.
27 Dec 2015, 12:42 PM
#18
Posts: 919
its rear armour is high at 180 which is better than most medium tanks, on par with a stock PIV.
Sure its a flanker and all that, but it makes the poor Panzer IV cry when its bouncing rear shots off the Comet which should still be punished for showing its butt to enemy fire.
All heavy tanks and vehicles could use a rear armour reduction though.
I think its intended. They wanted a fast late game heavy tank killer for brits but don't wanted to mirror the Panther (still my favourite tank in CoH2), so they lowered frontal armour and penetration but buffed back armour. I think its no balance problem because you have a lot more than a Panzer IV when a Comet shows up and flanking with a Comet is always at more risk than drive frontally in with a panther and back out when you took a few hits. Flanking is a lot more exposd to AT snares and getting into range of multiple handheld AT weapons. Because of that I really see no problem with a higher back armour for a flanker. It woukd be a total different thing if an ISU, Elephant, Jagdtiger or Kingtiger would have high back armour.
27 Dec 2015, 13:01 PM
#19
Posts: 111
500mp+185 fuel+Anvil upgrade costs
If you nerf the armour to being reliably penned by a PIV it would need a hefty cost decrease.
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