Why can USF inf pickup dual upgrades?
20 Dec 2015, 22:38 PM
#21
Posts: 168
So that they can counter the disgusting schreck blob mixed with sturmpioneers.
Of coursh
20 Dec 2015, 22:40 PM
#22
Posts: 1153 | Subs: 1
@Topic
I find double zooks, double bars, double Piats(lol) completely fine, no problem at all.
However LMGs are such potent weapons, that I think mainline infantry should not be able to hold two of these. It's no problem on elite infantry, since elite infantry can't be spammed and has to be used clever.
I agree. I played a 1v1 against a fellow Bear about the same skill level as me and he told me that he was forced to bring out a Sturmtiger because there was nothing he could do against double LMG rifles, although getting 1 Ober squad w/ LMG34 helped a lot.
Going slightly off topic here, I think LMG suppression should not be micro-less like Obersoldaten at vet 4. An ability for a small munition cost that is targeted on a unit (like RE volley fire) or like vcoh Riflemen where you have a timer and any unit fired at becomes suppressed would be more appropriate. The same or similar ability could be used at vet3 w/ LMG riflemen. Not Guards, because of their soft AT nature, and not Grenadiers because Wehr has easy access to suppression.
I think double BARs and bazookas is ok, but double M1919A6s is a little much. Although it is always important to consider the late game, when more options are available to kill infantry like indirect fire.
20 Dec 2015, 23:44 PM
#23
Posts: 611
People need to learn when they are outmatched and adapt according. Soviets don't try to fight gren/lmg spam with cons, they get snipers, t70, indirect fire etc etc.
If usf is going heavey lmg then axis can invest in snipers, heavey mg play, mine fields, double isg, ostwind, luchs etc etc.
Another example is if okw go heavey volk shreck At then usf shouldn't try to combat that with shermans...
Makes sense imo.
If usf is going heavey lmg then axis can invest in snipers, heavey mg play, mine fields, double isg, ostwind, luchs etc etc.
Another example is if okw go heavey volk shreck At then usf shouldn't try to combat that with shermans...
Makes sense imo.
21 Dec 2015, 01:02 AM
#25
Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1
Invissed some posts, keep it clean and keep it relevant.
The internal battery has run dry, the game can now be played. However, clock based events will no longer occur.
21 Dec 2015, 01:32 AM
#26
Posts: 295 | Subs: 1
The main problem is x2 LMG rifles. Bar and zooks are fine, but LMG is a joke, really. Not to mention that this things comes with arty commanders, which means that static defense would be pretty much useless against LMG blobs.
While single LMG is meh, double makes rifle DPS on pair with Obersoldaten. And you know, you won't have 4-5 obersoldaten running around simply because they will eat up your pop-cap and bleed you to death.
I would rather say, buff LMG slightly (add like +1 dps at all ranges) and make it double slot weapon OR keep it as it is, but only one per squad (leaving another one for Bar/zook).
Upgraded Rifles are alredy hard to deal with and facing Riflesoldaten blobs covered by Caliope or Prist becoming pretty much unbeatable if you don't have sturm tiger or Goliath.
While single LMG is meh, double makes rifle DPS on pair with Obersoldaten. And you know, you won't have 4-5 obersoldaten running around simply because they will eat up your pop-cap and bleed you to death.
I would rather say, buff LMG slightly (add like +1 dps at all ranges) and make it double slot weapon OR keep it as it is, but only one per squad (leaving another one for Bar/zook).
Upgraded Rifles are alredy hard to deal with and facing Riflesoldaten blobs covered by Caliope or Prist becoming pretty much unbeatable if you don't have sturm tiger or Goliath.
21 Dec 2015, 04:13 AM
#27
Posts: 245
DPS of single BAR on vet0 rifleman - 10.479/5.656/2.950
DPS of single 1919 on vet0 rifleman - 6.174/8.805/9.041
DPS of single Mg-34 on vet0 ober - 11.561/16.802/16.833
DPS of single Stg-44 on vet0 ober - 26.152/12.649/4.274
Bouth are 60 ammo, you can't shoot while moving with Mg-34, but your DPS at far range is 5,7 times better than BAR's and still even better at close. You want mobile platform - you have 2 Stgs for 60mu, each of them have DPS of 2 BARs. What is Debatable?
As you said dps on the move, the animation of going prone with the 42 gives a delay which is also to be considered in dps, alternatively you can equip rear echelons and why are you comparing obers elite inf to mainline inf rifleman, seems a bit disingenuous... Either way it cannot be objectively better in every scenario.
21 Dec 2015, 04:18 AM
#28
Posts: 304
that's why they need 150 mp + 15 fuel weapon rack upgrade in the base.
21 Dec 2015, 06:04 AM
#29
Posts: 354
As you said dps on the move, the animation of going prone with the 42 gives a delay which is also to be considered in dps, alternatively you can equip rear echelons and why are you comparing obers elite inf to mainline inf rifleman, seems a bit disingenuous... Either way it cannot be objectively better in every scenario.
Because you said - that it is debatable that mg34>BAR, when lmgs are on the top of food chain in CoH2 and are the best choice in majority of situations, and Mg-34 is the best lmg in the game only for 60mu, and I forgot that obers still could shout from lmg on the move, like paras. Why obers vs rifles - cause Mg-34=obers and cause you will give BARs to rifles in 90%, there is no other non-doctrinal choices for US, you have rifles for early game, you have them for mid and for late, you cant switch without 2 specific doctrines.
21 Dec 2015, 06:07 AM
#30
1 Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4
Because every unit in the game can hold atleast 2 weapons....
Tobis "Complete Throw"
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
Someone asked what my avatar was from... I really don't know.
Defeated Paula and knocked him out of 2v2 Anniversary Cup
21 Dec 2015, 06:39 AM
#31
Posts: 1617
Because every unit in the game can hold atleast 2 weapons....
Snipers
21 Dec 2015, 06:43 AM
#32
Posts: 1248
Invissed some posts, keep it clean and keep it relevant.
KappaPride. Finska is Finnish in Swedish. Consult Cataclaw for more Swedish.
21 Dec 2015, 06:47 AM
#33
Posts: 1248
The main problem is x2 LMG rifles. Bar and zooks are fine, but LMG is a joke, really. Not to mention that this things comes with arty commanders, which means that static defense would be pretty much useless against LMG blobs.
While single LMG is meh, double makes rifle DPS on pair with Obersoldaten. And you know, you won't have 4-5 obersoldaten running around simply because they will eat up your pop-cap and bleed you to death.
I would rather say, buff LMG slightly (add like +1 dps at all ranges) and make it double slot weapon OR keep it as it is, but only one per squad (leaving another one for Bar/zook).
Upgraded Rifles are alredy hard to deal with and facing Riflesoldaten blobs covered by Caliope or Prist becoming pretty much unbeatable if you don't have sturm tiger or Goliath.
You don't need so many obers just to counter rifles. You have volks that have vetted up from earlier which you can use in coordination with your 1 or 2 obers to counter lmg rifles. Along with a sturmpio or 2. Not to mention the armor you've built up. Each engagement is solely dependent on unit usage and weapon upgrades only intensify that.
Now you might say im referring to blobbing. If you do that then you make it easier for the other dude cause the core of your units are sitting right there all together. And no I'm saying use them in coordination with each other. With the tight grip relic has against blobbing right now its easy to make a blobbers life hard with Relic's last resort which is probably the CoH1 solution which was to give them debuffs when blobbed.
21 Dec 2015, 06:57 AM
#34
Posts: 245
Because you said - that it is debatable that mg34>BAR, when lmgs are on the top of food chain in CoH2 and are the best choice in majority of situations, and Mg-34 is the best lmg in the game only for 60mu, and I forgot that obers still could shout from lmg on the move, like paras. Why obers vs rifles - cause Mg-34=obers and cause you will give BARs to rifles in 90%, there is no other non-doctrinal choices for US, you have rifles for early game, you have them for mid and for late, you cant switch without 2 specific doctrines.
The post I replied to said 42>bar but still comparing the dps of elite infantry to rifleman isn't helping the argument anyway..please dude. I would take a 42 over bar most of the time also but it's not superior.
21 Dec 2015, 07:07 AM
#35
Posts: 354
The post I replied to said 42>bar but still comparing the dps of elite infantry to rifleman isn't helping the argument anyway..please dude. I would take a 42 over bar most of the time also but it's not superior.
Yes it was 42, my bad.
21 Dec 2015, 07:21 AM
#36
Posts: 611
The post I replied to said 42>bar but still comparing the dps of elite infantry to rifleman isn't helping the argument anyway..please dude. I would take a 42 over bar most of the time also but it's not superior.
Why should elite infantry be removed from the conversation. Obers are stock units, lmg are doctrinal. It seems obvious to me if usf go lmg then okw should look to obers as part of combined arms counter..
I think too many okw players just want to spam volks and mg34 into a panther and when that plan doesn't work, well usf op, get nerf bat out.
21 Dec 2015, 07:28 AM
#37
1 
Posts: 311
DPS of single BAR on vet0 rifleman - 10.479/5.656/2.950
DPS of single 1919 on vet0 rifleman - 6.174/8.805/9.041
DPS of single Mg-34 on vet0 ober - 11.561/16.802/16.833
DPS of single Stg-44 on vet0 ober - 26.152/12.649/4.274
Bouth are 60 ammo, you can't shoot while moving with Mg-34, but your DPS at far range is 5,7 times better than BAR's and still even better at close. You want mobile platform - you have 2 Stgs for 60mu, each of them have DPS of 2 BARs. What is Debatable?
Obersoldiers are elite infantry and behind T4, riflemen are not. You must compare elite infantry like Airborne or Rangers with Obers, if you want to convince.
21 Dec 2015, 08:12 AM
#38
Posts: 295 | Subs: 1
You don't need so many obers just to counter rifles. You have volks that have vetted up from earlier which you can use in coordination with your 1 or 2 obers to counter lmg rifles. Along with a sturmpio or 2. Not to mention the armor you've built up. Each engagement is solely dependent on unit usage and weapon upgrades only intensify that.
Now you might say im referring to blobbing. If you do that then you make it easier for the other dude cause the core of your units are sitting right there all together. And no I'm saying use them in coordination with each other. With the tight grip relic has against blobbing right now its easy to make a blobbers life hard with Relic's last resort which is probably the CoH1 solution which was to give them debuffs when blobbed.
I'm not saying that you need 4 obersts to counter LMG spam, I'm saying that ones rifle squad is equipped with x2 LMGs it's pretty much become like obersoldaten in terms of AI. While obersoldaten are elite, non spamable inf, rifles are mainline inf and giving mainline inf AI of elite inf is quite stupid.
We can argue and theorycraft about all possible situations but I for example, usually have 2 volks, 2 stums and 2 obersoldaten/Fallsh in late game and Usually they are unable to hold LMG blob effectively.
21 Dec 2015, 10:41 AM
#39
Posts: 611
I'm not saying that you need 4 obersts to counter LMG spam, I'm saying that ones rifle squad is equipped with x2 LMGs it's pretty much become like obersoldaten in terms of AI. While obersoldaten are elite, non spamable inf, rifles are mainline inf and giving mainline inf AI of elite inf is quite stupid.
We can argue and theorycraft about all possible situations but I for example, usually have 2 volks, 2 stums and 2 obersoldaten/Fallsh in late game and Usually they are unable to hold LMG blob effectively.
Without knowing what support weapons and vehicles you include in your build i would say 6 infantry squads seems a little light on if you are facing an opponent focusing heavily on lmg infantry.
21 Dec 2015, 11:29 AM
#40
2 
Posts: 90
As the game is becoming #eSporstsready finally, this is a major balance problem which still remains untouched to this day. 2x zook, bars and 1919 turn any useless unit into exterminators, AI or AT. This is a replay from Top 5 players, USF against the so called OPKW. If the USF guy could manage to not waste his shermans then the OPKW player had no chance in hell.
http://www.coh2.org/replay/46526/1v1-vs-jove-on-langres-great-fallschirmj%C3%A4ger-usage
May be because USF need double upgrade to face Volks horde ? Or Riflemens need double bar to face LMG 42 Gren ?
This game will never be esport ready(Hello 30 % winrate Brit, how are you ready for Esport ?).
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