[2v2] We're back to cheese meta

Cheese meta has always existed. I could've told you prepatch, before OKW got insane buffs, what meta allied strategy you had to do to get +50 winstreaks as UKF or USF. It was honestly not that hard to curb stomp axis if you had the right combination of abilities. Even more so then whatever combo axis can pull off at certain points.

3v3+ team games not so much. Considering there would sooner or later be 2+ king tigers. And with vehicle pathing for multiple vehicles being terrible as always; singular high HP/heavy hitting tanks will do better than a swarm of tanks in that situation.

Obers and Fals together is hard to beat as sov, my maxims gets killed very fast, and my shocks drops like flies, even if i try using smoke

Obers and Fals together is hard to beat as sov, my maxims gets killed very fast, and my shocks drops like flies, even if i try using smoke

So double USF it is :-P

So double USF it is :-P

Yep, if the other usf player can play, you can win

2v2 is in a pretty good spot right now. The counter to Calliope is awareness and micro. Check out these 2v2 stats and then L2P

http://coh2chart.com/

Well, what charts are saying is that before "OKW revamp" the balance was better. Since then, OKW increased skyhigh, ostheer kept its stats, while allied factions dropped more or less. Dunno if it's adaptation process or the OKW revamp was simply a mistake.
Like I said before, my opinion is that these changes for OKW were not the required ones. . Why making drastical changes when just small adjustments / changes were required?

So double USF it is :-P

NO its not (). sov has plenty of ways to deal with dubble okw in no time. but appearntly no one uses them brains and so they follow the meta as a hord of stupid sheeps. +

2v2 is in a pretty good spot right now. The counter to Calliope is awareness and micro. Check out these 2v2 stats and then L2P

http://coh2chart.com/

Didn't say it's not in a good spot, didn't say anything is OP.
Stop smoking whatever shit you smoke and stop imagining things people didn't say.

I am merely complaining about the boring fucked-up meta we have now where you do certain combo and you counter everything except the other teams' meta recipe.
IT IS BORING (in case you miss this part)

L2P? oh please. I ranked 20 in 2v2 AT so I dont need you to teach me to play.

Obers and Fals together is hard to beat as sov, my maxims gets killed very fast, and my shocks drops like flies, even if i try using smoke

Then push the OKW away and win before 3CP
2 OKW can't do shit vs 4 maxim 1 mortar with Rifles

So double USF it is :-P

not necessarily. Soviet cheese > USF cheese

Didn't say it's not in a good spot, didn't say anything is OP.
Stop smoking whatever shit you smoke and stop imagining things people didn't say.

I am merely complaining about the boring fucked-up meta we have now where you do certain combo and you counter everything except the other teams' meta recipe.
IT IS BORING (in case you miss this part)

L2P? oh please. I ranked 20 in 2v2 AT so I dont need you to teach me to play.

When has this game, or most RTS games in general, not had a "cheesy meta?" If you can't pull off more than one build with each faction then yeah its a L2P issue. There are plenty of viable commanders for each faction and build orders change from map to map. If you're so bored with the "spam" go play some quality Men of War.

Well, what charts are saying is that before "OKW revamp" the balance was better. Since then, OKW increased skyhigh, ostheer kept its stats, while allied factions dropped more or less. Dunno if it's adaptation process or the OKW revamp was simply a mistake.
Like I said before, my opinion is that these changes for OKW were not the required ones. . Why making drastical changes when just small adjustments / changes were required?

I think the changes were good for the most part, balance in 1v1 and 2v2 is more consistent that it was pre-patch. There are still a few changes to be made but for the most part I find OKW a lot more enjoyable to play as and against now. Unless you're UKF.

When has this game, or most RTS games in general, not had a "cheesy meta?" If you can't pull off more than one build with each faction then yeah its a L2P issue. There are plenty of viable commanders for each faction and build orders change from map to map. If you're so bored with the "spam" go play some quality Men of War.

A few months back before UKF release, we had a meta where Heavy Callin, Howitzer and a number of other commanders were much more viable, now tell me that was any cheesier than right now.
Not to mention Combined Arms were more promoted than now.

And please. show your playercard when you say "There are plenty of viable commanders for each faction", because we're talking about top 100 gameplay here scrub. If not please stick that "l2p" back into your ass where it belongs.

Well, what charts are saying is that before "OKW revamp" the balance was better. Since then, OKW increased skyhigh, ostheer kept its stats, while allied factions dropped more or less. Dunno if it's adaptation process or the OKW revamp was simply a mistake.
Like I said before, my opinion is that these changes for OKW were not the required ones. . Why making drastical changes when just small adjustments / changes were required?

Why do you think the surge in OKW players means the revamp was a mistake? (I'm not saying it wasn't, I'm questioning the reason you suggested.)

I think you should take into account that there are three allied factions and only two axis factions. If there were 2 allied factions, the graph would look very different and the OKW surge would be less pronounced.


I think it's more likely to mean that people are eager to try out OKW with the changes making them stronger, I don't think that's an indication that they're overpowered. They were certainly underpowered before.


That said, it's absolutely possible that they are indeed overpowered. I just don't think that the graph is any kind of indication of that as other factors probably play the main role in the surge in OKW.

A few months back before UKF release, we had a meta where Heavy Callin, Howitzer and a number of other commanders were much more viable, now tell me that was any cheesier than right now.
Not to mention Combined Arms were more promoted than now.

And please. show your playercard when you say "There are plenty of viable commanders for each faction", because we're talking about top 100 gameplay here scrub. If not please stick that "l2p" back into your ass where it belongs.

Yes, please bring back that top notch heavy call in-meta and Ml-20 abuse

Why do you think the surge in OKW players means the revamp was a mistake? (I'm not saying it wasn't, I'm questioning the reason you suggested.)

I think you should take into account that there are three allied factions and only two axis factions. If there were 2 allied factions, the graph would look very different and the OKW surge would be less pronounced.


I think it's more likely to mean that people are eager to try out OKW with the changes making them stronger, I don't think that's an indication that they're overpowered. They were certainly underpowered before.


That said, it's absolutely possible that they are indeed overpowered. I just don't think that the graph is any kind of indication of that as other factors probably play the main role in the surge in OKW.

I am not saying they are UP or OP. The meta is absolutely the same, as it allways was: In 90% of games, you do good with Allies in early game, you have the first cahnce. Allies are early game advantage factions, Axis are late game advantage factions. The only exception is UKF, which was a FAILED faction because it was build in a way that broke the meta and screwed the balance. Therefore, Relic desperatley attempted to adjust them, but since the concept is a FAIL from beginning, this faction will never find its place and will never be balanced for games larger than 1v1s.
For instance, playing with Allies in 2v2 random, if I am mixed with a brit player I know in a proportion of 80% that it will be a lost game.

Comming back to OKW, I was just saying that the changes and the revamp were wrong.

First, they shouldn't have removed the OKW flavor. You know, no stock P4s, no 100% income, no conversion removal, etc. If P4 is an acceptable adition to some extent, they should not screw the initial concept: crack units, poor resources.
They could build on that ideea and I am sure they would have found the way between and they would balance the faction.

Take for instance the OKW status before the big revamp. If some little changes were done, nobody (except allied hardocre fanboys - but hey, they are allways gonna cry and life will be unfair for them for ever), would say now that OKW is OP.

I just give some examples:
- Kubel - actual status, replacing MG34. Mg34 - stock unit and a little price increase like 240 or something. No change at all for volks.
- AA buildable emplacements better health or/and receive an extra model.
- ISG actual status.
- Cheaper mines. Cheaper bobby traps.
- AA HT - no engine damage from small arms fire
- Scavange revamp. Scavanging a vehicle, gives fuel - but a little more. 8 or 10. Scavanging a weapon gives amo. Like 15 or 20.
- sturmpios actual status

And a one or two more, I even made a list somewhere but I ain't got time now to look for it. These changes were soft and were compensating the OKW weaknesses nicely, without transforming it into a hated faction - again. Dunno why instead a small risk-free step, Relic made a big and verry risky step with this faction.

And frankly, I truly believe that Ostheer had, and still has, more problems than OKW had.

I am not saying they are UP or OP. The meta is absolutely the same, as it allways was: In 90% of games, you do good with Allies in early game, you have the first cahnce. Allies are early game advantage factions, Axis are late game advantage factions. The only exception is UKF, which was a FAILED faction because it was build in a way that broke the meta and screwed the balance. Therefore, Relic desperatley attempted to adjust them, but since the concept is a FAIL from beginning, this faction will never find its place and will never be balanced for games larger than 1v1s.
For instance, playing with Allies in 2v2 random, if I am mixed with a brit player I know in a proportion of 80% that it will be a lost game.

Comming back to OKW, I was just saying that the changes and the revamp were wrong.

First, they shouldn't have removed the OKW flavor. You know, no stock P4s, no 100% income, no conversion removal, etc. If P4 is an acceptable adition to some extent, they should not screw the initial concept: crack units, poor resources.
They could build on that ideea and I am sure they would have found the way between and they would balance the faction.

Take for instance the OKW status before the big revamp. If some little changes were done, nobody (except allied hardocre fanboys - but hey, they are allways gonna cry and life will be unfair for them for ever), would say now that OKW is OP.

I just give some examples:
- Kubel - actual status, replacing MG34. Mg34 - stock unit and a little price increase like 240 or something. No change at all for volks.
- AA buildable emplacements better health or/and receive an extra model.
- ISG actual status.
- Cheaper mines. Cheaper bobby traps.
- AA HT - no engine damage from small arms fire
- Scavange revamp. Scavanging a vehicle, gives fuel - but a little more. 8 or 10. Scavanging a weapon gives amo. Like 15 or 20.
- sturmpios actual status

And a one or two more, I even made a list somewhere but I ain't got time now to look for it. These changes were soft and were compensating the OKW weaknesses nicely, without transforming it into a hated faction - again. Dunno why instead a small risk-free step, Relic made a big and verry risky step with this faction.

And frankly, I truly believe that Ostheer had, and still has, more problems than OKW had.

Great answer, thanks JohnnyB. Lot to think about now.

Praise con/guard spam it has lived ever since release god bless

I'm now joining matches where the US player is LMG blobbing from the start. With the new commander