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russian armor

The new pop cost of infantry

13 Dec 2015, 07:32 AM
#21
avatar of RMMLz

Posts: 1802 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2015, 00:36 AMmedhood
So what you're saying is Royal Engineers fill the same role as Infantry Sections except cheaper while Pioneers have their own unique role of being a scout and Garrison clearer woth Grenadiers and Panzer Grenadiers doing the front line unit roles
Royal Engineers also have the task of repairing and maintaining the emplacements they build so they can get busy on that behalf aswell as vehicles so if you gave em double brens they wont be using them while an infantry section could be making use of the Brem in battle
Other then the usual engineer stuff they dont really bring anything thats unique from the rest of the army unlike pioneers


This is off topic, but still all other engineer units (most notably CEs and Pios) have more tasks than REs for nearly the same price. Retreating a builder unit for base building is huge. Their repair speed is also better than other units, and please, who builds and maintain emplacements?
Lets agree to disagree.
13 Dec 2015, 08:01 AM
#22
avatar of medhood

Posts: 621

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Dec 2015, 07:32 AMRMMLz


This is off topic, but still all other engineer units (most notably CEs and Pios) have more tasks than REs for nearly the same price. Retreating a builder unit for base building is huge. Their repair speed is also better than other units, and please, who builds and maintain emplacements?
Lets agree to disagree.

While most people dont build emplacements we have to remember that they exist :), but of course Relic did abit of a flimsy job at implementing them and no one liked them in CoH1 so I dont know why we saw their return
14 Dec 2015, 03:28 AM
#23
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2015, 13:45 PMmedhood

Royal Engineers dont have extra line of sight or flamethrowers and while they have the anvil upgrade thats locked behind tech

Pioneers have their line of sight and flamethrowers which is used and is effective through out the entire game

Royal Engineers while a good unit dont have as much utility as pioneers in my opinion and the utility they do have can also be fulfilled by other infantry units of the UKF kind of like Rear Echelon and even Rear Echelon can get flamer throwers

and while the wasp on the Bren Carrier does exist that thing tends to have a short life span

Royal Engineers are probably only useful when you get triple lmgs which will cost you 190 munitions but you can also give those lmgs to your Infantry Sections kinda like Rear Echelon you can give them bars or give it to Riflemen the choice is up to you

No. Pioneers with flamethrower don't perform well enough because this squard has poor durability,you simply lose 2-3 models fast and have to retreat.The flamethrower poineers/combat engineers/rear echlon never become problems. Because they are the weakest infantry of the whole game.

At least royal engineers have much more firepower due to their sten smg,they can even force back a grens squard 1 on 1 in close combat.

The thing is relic just don't know what they are doing at all.Leave the weakest infantry(poineers/combat engineers/rear echlon) alone at low pop cost because there's not a single reason to spam them.Increasing the pop to 6 makes no sense because the mainline infantry has 6/7 pop cost.

14 Dec 2015, 03:44 AM
#24
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2015, 15:21 PMGrumpy


They do have better LOS and slightly better combat abilities than either RE or CE's. If you dropped the pop cap, then wouldn't it make sense to buff the combat abilities of the other engineers to make it fair? If Relic does that with enough units, then eventually the game will be like Warcraft II where all of the units were basically the same but just had different skins. Also, RE's now cost 200 so Pio's are still cheaper on games lasting less than a half hour.

Shocks seem like a really good squad for 8 pop cap. Maybe that is Relic making up for all of Soviet T1 being garbage.


You are wrong. The pop cost is previously 5 for poineers but not 6. If it is fine before so why nerf it? The ponieers cant suddenly be OP because this is the weakest infantry of the game. Their main pole is reparing/building/planting mines and they are really poor enough as hell when combating.Increasing the pop cost of units such as poineers/combat engineers is a goddamn nobrain change.
14 Dec 2015, 03:50 AM
#25
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2015, 19:05 PMwafive
yea, pioneer should back into 5 pop cap, while the smg's of royal engineer even can deal with infantry, unlike pioneer, so it's fine in 6 pop cap

also call same of call-ins infantry and team weapon pop cap is still trouble
like 13 HM-120mm
5 M2HB HMG
8 Fallschirmjager
6 Panzerfusilier
4 smg partisans
8 AT partisans xD
and ect


13 HM-120mm...lelic:foreveralone:
14 Dec 2015, 04:24 AM
#26
avatar of medhood

Posts: 621

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Dec 2015, 03:28 AMatouba

No. Pioneers with flamethrower don't perform well enough because this squard has poor durability,you simply lose 2-3 models fast and have to retreat.The flamethrower poineers/combat engineers/rear echlon never become problems. Because they are the weakest infantry of the whole game.

At least royal engineers have much more firepower due to their sten smg,they can even force back a grens squard 1 on 1 in close combat.

The thing is relic just don't know what they are doing at all.Leave the weakest infantry(poineers/combat engineers/rear echlon) alone at low pop cost because there's not a single reason to spam them.Increasing the pop to 6 makes no sense because the mainline infantry has 6/7 pop cost.


The flamethrower provides anti-garrison damage and anti-cover and one it isnt about what they can fight in 1v1 Company of Heroes is a game of combined arms and using a mixture of units so its what they provide to the army and the pioneer fills in many roles in the Wehrmacht army not filled by other units (That is part of the Wehrmacht army) with only a few others that can fulfill it such as the Flame Halftrack which is really expensive and more dangerous to use

The flamethrower is available from the start of the game and is useful thoughout the entire game on maps with buildings

The Royal Engineers just provide a cheaper alternative to the infantry section they dont add anything else to the army they are just a cheaper alternative like Ostruppen

To make it clear Pioneers can fill in more roles than Royal Engineers while Royal Engineers may be good combat units for an Engineer unit they dont fill as much roles
14 Dec 2015, 05:11 AM
#27
avatar of The Big Red 1

Posts: 758

i liked it when USF pogues were 4 popcap and costed 150 MP a piece now i feel like im walking with a 1-2 crutches when playing USF
14 Dec 2015, 10:19 AM
#28
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Dec 2015, 04:24 AMmedhood

The flamethrower provides anti-garrison damage and anti-cover and one it isnt about what they can fight in 1v1 Company of Heroes is a game of combined arms and using a mixture of units so its what they provide to the army and the pioneer fills in many roles in the Wehrmacht army not filled by other units (That is part of the Wehrmacht army) with only a few others that can fulfill it such as the Flame Halftrack which is really expensive and more dangerous to use

The flamethrower is available from the start of the game and is useful thoughout the entire game on maps with buildings

The Royal Engineers just provide a cheaper alternative to the infantry section they dont add anything else to the army they are just a cheaper alternative like Ostruppen

To make it clear Pioneers can fill in more roles than Royal Engineers while Royal Engineers may be good combat units for an Engineer unit they dont fill as much roles


But the soviet combat engineers still cost 5 pop? So why only poineers suddenly needs the pop increasing?It must be a mistake, otherwise it's a joke for relic.
14 Dec 2015, 10:47 AM
#29
avatar of medhood

Posts: 621

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Dec 2015, 10:19 AMatouba


But the soviet combat engineers still cost 5 pop? So why only poineers suddenly needs the pop increasing?It must be a mistake, otherwise it's a joke for relic.

Must be the extra sight + their MP40s dish out some decent dps compared to the engineer rifles
14 Dec 2015, 11:27 AM
#30
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Dec 2015, 10:47 AMmedhood

Must be the extra sight + their MP40s dish out some decent dps compared to the engineer rifles


LOL decent dps? The poineers mp40s still lose to combat engineers rifles sometimes. And because of this thus increasing the pop to the mainline infantry level become reasonable? The cons pop cost is 6 too. So what then? The poineers can be counterpart of the cons now?
14 Dec 2015, 11:37 AM
#31
avatar of ATCF
Donator 33

Posts: 587

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Dec 2015, 11:27 AMatouba


LOL decent dps? The poineers mp40s still lose to combat engineers rifles sometimes. And because of this thus increasing the pop to the mainline infantry level become reasonable? The cons pop cost is 6 too. So what then? The poineers can be counterpart of the cons now?


Well they have almost the same DPS with their MP 40´s as 4 penal soldiers using their SVT´s from close range so there is that and penals are a "Effective anti-infantry squad" :snfPeter:
15 Dec 2015, 00:26 AM
#32
avatar of Pagliarini

Posts: 80 | Subs: 1

[Post #15 invised for disrespect to developers.]
15 Dec 2015, 07:02 AM
#33
avatar of What Doth Life?!
Patrion 27

Posts: 1664

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Dec 2015, 10:19 AMatouba


But the soviet combat engineers still cost 5 pop? So why only poineers suddenly needs the pop increasing?It must be a mistake, otherwise it's a joke for relic.


As if Combat Engineers have ANY fighting capability. Relic actually nerfed their dps a while back by giving them their own garbage Mosin Nagants while buffing Pioneers sight range, which is awesome with MG42.
15 Dec 2015, 10:48 AM
#34
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Dec 2015, 11:37 AMATCF


Well they have almost the same DPS with their MP 40´s as 4 penal soldiers using their SVT´s from close range so there is that and penals are a "Effective anti-infantry squad" :snfPeter:


You have just pointed out what the issue is."from close range" The fact is the poineers have lost 1-2 models when they move close. And 4 penal soldiers cost 5 pop in the game.

more instances:
4 cons sodiers cost 4 pop
4 Guard sodiers cost 6 pop
4 Shock sodiers cost 6 pop


So now 4 ponieer sodiers cost 6 pop too.:foreveralone:
There's a ton of reasons why poineers shouldn't cost more pop than 5:

1,It's a small 4 men squard.
2,It performs poor at combat.
3,It has pretty weak durability.
4,It has busy work to do.
5,You always need 2 more poineers to fast repair your heavy tank.(2 poineer cost 12 pop, should be another Pz4...)

That's why I said relic just don't know what they are doing.:snfPeter:
15 Dec 2015, 10:53 AM
#35
avatar of atouba

Posts: 482



As if Combat Engineers have ANY fighting capability. Relic actually nerfed their dps a while back by giving them their own garbage Mosin Nagants while buffing Pioneers sight range, which is awesome with MG42.


So the combat engineers cost 170 MP. The cheapest infantry, isn't it? I'm not saying the combat engineers OP but just for pop comparison.
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