Luchs

alright, let's nerf stuarts AI then if it's meant as AT, right?

Ok, then buff it's at. It has 40 less damage and 10 less range than similarly priced puma.

Stuart is an all round unit that doesn't excel in any particular role. If you think it's shock value is anywhere near that of the luchs', you may be high. The correct unit to compare the luchs to, is the t70.

Ok, then buff it's at. It has 40 less damage and 10 less range than similarly priced puma.

Stuart is an all round unit that doesn't excel in any particular role. If you think it's shock value is anywhere near that of the luchs', you may be high. The correct unit to compare the luchs to, is the t70.

Stuart has a clear role and the clear role is heavy anti Infantry, and light AT.You are dismissing such a powerful AI unit that can win games by itself

If the Luchs comes out too early, so does the Stuart.

Two wrongs don't make a right. I'm rather tired of any light vehicle rush myself, it causes all sorts of balance/pacing problems with snares (cough brits cough) and having to to madly tech to get AT (Soviets are more or less forced into T2 vs OKW). The cat's out of the bag on this one sadly, but still.

ANyway, I don't think the Luchs is especially OP. There are ways to counter it and it dies to anything bigger than a jeep. Adding fuel sinks to OKW seems like a better solution, indirectly ''nerfing'' the Luchs by forcing OKW to diversify their tech.

OKW didnt need any buff or "overhaul". Heads of those wwho claimed that need overhaul. OKW just needed mortar nerf with no autorotation ofc and adding side upgrades. Their inf was totaly fine.

I see who im playing against. I see their level they are 2v4 idiots. When the game was balanced they played only 2v2+. Cuz they suck ass 1v1. Now they can play vs much better opponents 1v1 with that gamebreaking patch.

It still has nowhere near the anti infantry shock value of a T70 or luchs, which can wipe a squad much more quickly and hunt them fown on retreat more effectively.

While people don't buy a stuart to counter a 222, they absolutely do buy it to counter a fht, puma, luchs, ht, or stuka. It is meant to go a lot deeper to fulfill it's roles than a T70 or a luchs, as it's abilities show.

The luchs doesn't need the extra hp to fulfill it's roles, and can make do with micro like the t70 does. It needed it before because of how late it hit, but now it hits with every other light vehicle.

Also, as a side note, the okw has much better supporting at for the luchs than a T70 has, so it's not like the hp is needed to help it survive diving tanks. If the luchs needs 400hp, so does the t70.

You don't have to dive down into enemy territory to knock those vehicles out, 320 hp is sufficient to stay behind your lines fending those units off, but from my experience most players don't rush a Stuart to counter a Luchs or a Flame HT (Zooks & At guns are dealing with that pretty fine) but rather to harass and wipe lone squads or shock your opponent in early-mid game when he has no AT out.

I can also use a Luchs (or a T70 for axis vehicles) to destroy M3, AAHTs, Kattyushas and other low fuel allies vehicles, but people that buy light tanks want to shock infantry that is not prepared for that, the light vehicle counter is just a bonus.

The Stuart was crap at 320 hp and likewise the Luchs will be crap at 320 hp, it means it dies to 2 Captain zook volleys, hence that means Luchs will be completely shut down by a free unit.
The Luchs got indirectly nerfed through the squad spacing changes and its fuel cost increased, while the pen got decreased. It's meant to be a viable unit and I can say that 320 hp means I will be less keen, if not stopping at all to build that unit and stall for a tank.

I don't get why the T70 still has only 320 hp, although it comes latest, but that has nothing to do with the luchs or stuart.

literally anyone defending this current match up is either hig

i personaly dont care about what they say and about them in general.

But what about developers?
Do they consider game is on scrapyard already? Or they lost ability to sum up dobl didgits.

T70 realistic minimum cost is 195 fuel (+25 cuz you cant skip nades otherwise he will just take whole map with dirt cheap kubels).
Luchs realistic minimum cost is 115. It can take 2 atg (maybe even 3) shots, T70 armour can survive only 1 atg shot.
That means luchs is absolutely uncoounterable. By the time it arrives you realisticaly can have 1 atg. If 2 atgs you will just get overwhelmed by infantry spam and consequtive stupidly OP mortars.

Luchs . It can take 2 (Maybe even 3) atg shots, T70 armour can survive only 1 atg shot.

Lol learn stats. Luchs has 400 hp, stuart has 400 hp, t70 has 320 HP. AT gun does 160 damage. Hope you can do the math yourself.

I don't get why the T70 stil has only 320 hp, although it comes latest, but that has nothing to do with the luchs or stuart.

I really want to say that it's not power creep, but at the same time I feel that there aren't many things vanilla factions do that WFA factions don't do better and/or cheaper. But that's just me.

Two wrongs don't make a right. I'm rather tired of any light vehicle rush myself, it causes all sorts of balance/pacing problems with snares (cough brits cough) and having to to madly tech to get AT (Soviets are more or less forced into T2 vs OKW). The cat's out of the bag on this one sadly, but still.

ANyway, I don't think the Luchs is especially OP. There are ways to counter it and it dies to anything bigger than a jeep. Adding fuel sinks to OKW seems like a better solution, indirectly ''nerfing'' the Luchs by forcing OKW to diversify their tech.

I honestly thing the pacing is good, relic was experimenting a lot with it and right now they are in a spot where you get them out, because the advantage from them is big enough to excuse the delay of a medium tank.
Before we always had M20-> Sherman meta, or as OKW T1->T4->P4 or T1 with scavenger support with Ostwinds. If you want to delay light vehicles, you have automatically delay Medium tanks by the same margin and I personally think that will make games drag out too long.

I really want to say that it's not power creep, but at the same time I feel that there aren't many things vanilla factions do that WFA factions don't do better and/or cheaper. But that's just me.

Yeah relic seems to have forgotten about the vanilla factions, still no forward retreat points and still lackluster vet abilities.

I really want to say that it's not power creep, but at the same time I feel that there aren't many things vanilla factions do that WFA factions don't do better and/or cheaper. But that's just me.

it is pretty much power creep. The t70 just never got a hp increase because the 45mm is death against infantry.

Ok, then buff it's at. It has 40 less damage and 10 less range than similarly priced puma.

Stuart is an all round unit that doesn't excel in any particular role. If you think it's shock value is anywhere near that of the luchs', you may be high. The correct unit to compare the luchs to, is the t70.

i dare to you to test out stuarts AI performance vs. Ostwind... the results will surprise you :-)

or, in other words: the stuart is almost as good at AI as the Ostwind, especially when you factor in what kind of infantry they're up against (4/5 men squads vs 4-6 men squads).

the stuart, for it's role and cost, is too good at AI.

edit: or, ofc, the ostwind needs a significant dmg boost or cost reduction.

If the Luchs comes out too early, so does the Stuart.

Already point you your bias.

Somehow you still forgot to add nades/racks and ambulance to the cost.

Already point you your bias.

Somehow you still forgot to add nades/racks and ambulance to the cost.

yeah right. also add molotovs and base healing costs to clown cars.

yeah right. also add molotovs and base healing costs to clown cars.

M3 comes before Molos or Healing. Stuart usually comes after ambulance and nades.

theres several trade offs for going mechanized, the most important being you lose healing until you get vet 1 sturms or vet 3 volks. losing healing is actually a pretty big deal since its harder for you to stop manpower bleed.

you also kinda devote a lot of resources in vehicles, which are countered by zooks, mines, at guns, guards, etc, so if your investment fails, youre in a really bad spot. also delays obers and mediums.

Haven't really thought about it that way.
Kinda helped me lol. (No sarcasm)

M3 comes before Molos or Healing. Stuart usually comes after ambulance and nades.

you mean... you can choose to rush a vehicle? a vehicle like the stuart? thats weird... because your last post made it sound like they were prerequisites. in that case, add T2 cost to luchs as well pls... since healing and stuff usually comes before luchs, right?

you mean... you can choose to rush a vehicle? a vehicle like the stuart? thats weird... because your last post made it sound like they were prerequisites. in that case, add T2 cost to luchs as well pls... since healing and stuff usually comes before luchs, right?

Nope. If you go for mechanized, you won't build med before luchs.
If you go for Cpt, you will get nades and ambu before.

Nope. If you go for mechanized, you won't build med before luchs.
If you go for Cpt, you will get nades and ambu before.

Really? thats strange since i can cleary remember that in 90% of my USF games i rushed stuart before getting ambulance and didn't get nades altogether.

Must be my imagination tho.

If you go nades you lose all the AI schok value that the Stuart have. If you really want its presence you can even ignore ambu, although thats harder to do. Nades are totally skipable, especially if you are facing okw.

Damn, you must be top players if you don't need nades agasint OST with HMG42.