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T-34/76 feels plain pathetic

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raw
22 Jul 2013, 16:54 PM
#181
avatar of raw

Posts: 644

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2013, 16:53 PMakula
T70 is insane in team games. lowering cost would just mean more spam!


Team games can't be the base line for 1v1 balance. T-70 suffers from the same circumstances as the T-34. When they pop, Ostheer is starting to ramp up armor production so you need AV and not AI, they are too weak to win vs. any Ostheer armor and they delay the SU-85 considerably. They can also easily be shut down by Panzergrenadiers.

Lowering the fuel cost would put them on field earlier, force an earlier panzershreck on the german side (well, he'll get one either way) and gives it more room (time) to maneuvre, while improving the T3->T4 transition situation (which currently is extremely hard to do with the current meta).
5 OP OH tanks in front of your base
blow one up, slap it around
7 OP OH tanks in front of your base
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Tristan44
22 Jul 2013, 18:12 PM
#182
avatar of Tristan44

Posts: 915

T70 kites pgrens to death...
http://www.twitch.tv/tristand44
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pqumsieh
2 of 2 Relic postsRelic
22 Jul 2013, 18:22 PM
#183
avatar of pqumsieh
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Posts: 267 | Subs: 8

Just to clarify one point, Ram does not factor into the T34's unit value. All abilities are meant to be costed separated, if they are not than that is a separate issue.

Regarding the T34, we're looking into this. Hopefully we'll have something out that the community feels is more appropriate for both the game and the units role.
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Omega_Warrior
22 Jul 2013, 20:36 PM
#184
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2013, 18:22 PMpqumsieh
Just to clarify one point, Ram does not factor into the T34's unit value. All abilities are meant to be costed separated, if they are not than that is a separate issue.

Regarding the T34, we're looking into this. Hopefully we'll have something out that the community feels is more appropriate for both the game and the units role.


All hail the dev gods! Bringer of buffs!

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Omega_Warrior
22 Jul 2013, 20:41 PM
#185
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2013, 18:22 PMpqumsieh
Just to clarify one point, Ram does not factor into the T34's unit value. All abilities are meant to be costed separated, if they are not than that is a separate issue.

Regarding the T34, we're looking into this. Hopefully we'll have something out that the community feels is more appropriate for both the game and the units role.

So I guess this means that T34's ram ability doesn't factor in to it's overall cost and it's technically free because it's disadvantages equal it's advantages. I suppose then that the T34s failings are it's own and not due to its ability.
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mephswall
22 Jul 2013, 21:21 PM
#186
avatar of mephswall

Posts: 21

Hello, in my mind t34/76 no feel so pathetic, i play a lot with them and i think they have just to be a little upgraded.

Ram ability isn't a really good adavantage because otheers tank can escape if you have no at/guards to finish the job.

But t34/76 is a sherman like coh1 so it's a good infantry support and with the bulletin 5% upgrade dammage and the bulletin 3%armor and precision it can be a really godd piece of shit for a otheer player.

1 GUARD, 1 T34 can break a P4.

But stug can counter easily any t34.

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yogeurts
22 Jul 2013, 21:31 PM
#187
avatar of yogeurts

Posts: 148

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2013, 21:21 PMmephswall
Hello, in my mind t34/76 no feel so pathetic, i play a lot with them and i think they have just to be a little upgraded.

Ram ability isn't a really good adavantage because otheers tank can escape if you have no at/guards to finish the job.

But t34/76 is a sherman like coh1 so it's a good infantry support and with the bulletin 5% upgrade dammage and the bulletin 3%armor and precision it can be a really godd piece of shit for a otheer player.

1 GUARD, 1 T34 can break a P4.

But stug can counter easily any t34.



Considering since you're French, don't you surrender before your opponent can get any sort of armor out?
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Funkeh
22 Jul 2013, 22:19 PM
#188
avatar of Funkeh

Posts: 77

Glad to hear that they are getting looked at, just a slight AT penetration buff would be sufficient.
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mephswall
22 Jul 2013, 23:02 PM
#189
avatar of mephswall

Posts: 21

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2013, 21:31 PMyogeurts


Considering since you're French, don't you surrender before your opponent can get any sort of armor out?


ok french army are the worst in ww2 i agree:)

Why surrender?

If i loose, i loose but not until the end.

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Infernalis
22 Jul 2013, 23:42 PM
#190
avatar of Infernalis

Posts: 44

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2013, 21:31 PMyogeurts


Considering since you're French, don't you surrender before your opponent can get any sort of armor out?


Considering you're African American, don't you try to rape, steal and murder?
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Omega_Warrior
23 Jul 2013, 00:05 AM
#191
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2013, 23:42 PMInfernalis


Considering you're African American, don't you try to rape, steal and murder?


WTF man! You could have gone with watermelon and fried chicken, but no straight to rape.
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hubewa
23 Jul 2013, 00:29 AM
#192
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 928

T-34 can hold it's ground quite nicely.

It's a bit like the Sher. The Sher can fight 1v1 against a Pz4 (but here the Pz4 is more expensive than the T-34 by a large margin).

However, just like in the original game, T-34 tends to not do so well against Panthers or other german heavy armour.

It is kinda weird how there's not strong AT in T3.

So, maybe a way to solve this is to switch the M5 with the ZIS or something. Or even the M5 with the SU-76.
Had fun doing this earlier
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Con!
23 Jul 2013, 01:23 AM
#193
avatar of Con!

Posts: 299

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2013, 16:54 PMraw


Team games can't be the base line for 1v1 balance. T-70 suffers from the same circumstances as the T-34. When they pop, Ostheer is starting to ramp up armor production so you need AV and not AI, they are too weak to win vs. any Ostheer armor and they delay the SU-85 considerably. They can also easily be shut down by Panzergrenadiers.

Lowering the fuel cost would put them on field earlier, force an earlier panzershreck on the german side (well, he'll get one either way) and gives it more room (time) to maneuvre, while improving the T3->T4 transition situation (which currently is extremely hard to do with the current meta).


I must be boss then I quite often go t3 get a t-70 and m5 and easily transition into su85's soon after Ostheer has tanks. Not to mention that a lot of the time (not always) t-70 just makes pgrens dance.

Now I only ever get a t-34/76 after I have at least two su-85's out cause otherwise they are crap vs. p4's and cost too much to ever lose unlike t-70.
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CombatMuffin
23 Jul 2013, 04:09 AM
#194
avatar of CombatMuffin

Posts: 642

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jul 2013, 16:49 PMraw


I would lower the fuel cost on the T-70 to 40 or 45, tbh.


You can't make a unit cheaper just because the tier is underused. You must first find out why it is underused. The point of the T70, or any unit for that matter, is not to absolutely destroy everything with it. before a better unit comes out. On the contrary, it is to make use of the unit as best as you can before that counter arrives. If it doesn't then you played your cards right, and he played them wrong.

The T70 has more than enough damage potential to play a significant role if your strategy was laid out this way. Its true that the T70 loses value if the Ostheer has gotten an advantage and is rolling medium tanks, but if he is at T3, getting his PIV out, and you don't have some sort of hard AT on the field already, then something went wrong, because soviets can field pretty much any unit they want before the Ostheer equivalent (Heavy tanks excepted).
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UGBEAR
23 Jul 2013, 04:41 AM
#195
avatar of UGBEAR

Posts: 954

You can make T-70 cheaper if you make ostwind cheaper but nerf ostwind AT ability against T-34 tanks (AKA pen nerf) buf enough to be an soft counter to T-70
jump backJump back to quoted post8 Nov 2015, 18:05 PMd0ggY
First off all. Tripwire so gud, 10 ammo for a whole dead squad ? + sight.
Vehicle capture point can win games, blitzkrieg save a tank. Fair Deal i think


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raw
23 Jul 2013, 14:07 PM
#196
avatar of raw

Posts: 644

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2013, 01:23 AMCon!


I must be boss then


Probably, because against the Ostheer players I have to play against it simply doesn't work. You either have SU-85 by 10 minutes or you're dead or have been winning the game anyway.

if he is at T3, getting his PIV out, and you don't have some sort of hard AT on the field already, then something went wrong


This is exactly my reasoning aswell. Now let us see what "sort of hard AT" we can have when the Ostheer is rolling out tanks.

T-34? :(
Paks? :lolol:
SU-85? :drool:
5 OP OH tanks in front of your base
blow one up, slap it around
7 OP OH tanks in front of your base
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Mauser
23 Jul 2013, 14:23 PM
#197
avatar of Mauser

Posts: 255

I agree T34 feels a bit like a japanese kamekazi tank atm. It was actually quite a good tank and I think it was just as good or better than the sherman. Tank battles in vcoh were quite well balanced so I think t34 and p4 should play out similiar to sherman/p4. The P4 should still win easily though if all things are equal.

Putting ram at vet 1 makes no sense. Why would a vetted crew want to ram, and why would you want to risk your vet 1 tank? I think Ram is fine as is, and as Stephenn said, you should only ram if he over-extends.

The best solution i have heard so far is giving it an up-gun to 85mm option(but this should be quite expensive munitions wise, say 150~200). This will actually make soviets slightly more dependant on munitions cos currently soviet always floats munis mid game. The rest of the tank can be left unchanged imo. I think T34 is aimed to encourage combined arms tactics which is great.
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Con!
23 Jul 2013, 14:28 PM
#198
avatar of Con!

Posts: 299

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2013, 14:07 PMraw


Probably, because against the Ostheer players I have to play against it simply doesn't work. You either have SU-85 by 10 minutes or you're dead or have been winning the game anyway.



This is exactly my reasoning aswell. Now let us see what "sort of hard AT" we can have when the Ostheer is rolling out tanks.

T-34? :(
Paks? :lolol:
SU-85? :drool:


I usually don't see a ton of 10 minute p4's ( I can think of only one game where it happened on Moscow, but I was already behind in that game. I think it was a function of that more then anything. Not mention I walked right into the p4) mostly 13 min or so and even then I just get at nades and a zis till my su85 comes out. While as best as I can I try and keep my t-70 on the opposite side of the map of the p4/oswind although some times pathing sends it the wrong way.












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CombatMuffin
23 Jul 2013, 16:10 PM
#199
avatar of CombatMuffin

Posts: 642

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jul 2013, 14:07 PMraw

T-34? :(
Paks? :lolol:
SU-85? :drool:


If it was up to me, ATG's should be much more powerful, for both sides. Not sure what vCoH had exactly, but even during late game, if you saw an enemy ATG, you simply backed off. Sure, they didn't kill you in three shots, but it was not avenue you wanted to risk unless you were properly supported, or using a massive super tank.
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Funkeh
23 Jul 2013, 18:16 PM
#200
avatar of Funkeh

Posts: 77

At least the soviet AT gun isn't that bad. Sure it has a low rate of fire which makes it easier for tanks to circle them, but if you can support them, they are quite adequate (i.e. AT-nade the tank, or button it etc.)

As for Soviets floating munitions, it depends on doctrines and units fielded. There are a lot of abilities that require munitions such as demo charges, trip-wires (would add up over time), flares on snipers, barrage on AT gun, button, grenades, flamer CEs (more necessary for Soviets as a damage component), mines, precision shot on mortars (terribly inaccurate otherwise). Then we have the commander-specific abilities such as Mark Vehicle (80 munitions, and critical to Soviet non-t4 play).

Essentially, there are plenty of things to spend munitions on as Soviets, I guess you don't see people use them much because the majority goes Guard Rifle Combined Arms, whose most exorbitant munitions cost are upgrading DP-28s and buttoning vehicles.
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