T-34/76 feels plain pathetic

Chart now shows T34 at 6.5 time to field, and PIV at 7.5 time to field.

That means a) T34s hit the field earlier, negating your argument. b) is a substantial window, negating your claim that "did not alter the times in a significant way"

Next time please consider your own calculations before forcing the community to waste its time intervening to correct false statements.

Chart now shows T34 at 6.5 time to field, and PIV at 7.5 time to field.

That means a) T34s hit the field earlier, negating your argument. b) is a substantial window, negating your claim that "did not alter the times in a significant way"

Next time please consider your own calculations before forcing the community to waste its time intervening to correct false statements.

1 minute is not significant. Thanks for spotting the mistake though.

If 1min is not significant in your falsely unbiased eyes and opinion, then how about we delay SU85 by a minute?

Im one post away from ignoring all future balance commentary on your part as deliberately biased and intentionally unobjective. Make it count.

If 1min is not significant in your falsely unbiased eyes and opinion, then how about we delay SU85 by a minute?

Im one post away from ignoring all future balance commentary on your part as deliberately biased and intentionally unobjective. Make it count.

You don't have to ask my permission to ignore me. You're uneccessarily angry and extremely bitter the whole time - so please go ahead, if you feel that it helps you to keep your calm.

We can delay the SU-85 by one minute, I would have no problems with that - in fact I have been proposing a delay to the SU-85 for a couple of weeks. One minute seems pretty useless to me though, just means I need to hold onto one territory point more to keep current timing.

Your rage was kinda helpful though, because going over the sheet again I realised that the techpath for germans and soviets was completely unrealistic. This is now reflected in the sheet.

Yes, basically you did it all wrong, and came here all barrels blazing claiming completely false facts.

Pretty hard fail, tbh.

Lets delay T34 by a minute too, since its "an insignificant delay".

Hahaha. Nullist of all people calling someone bias is laughably ironic and hilarious. Then when he loses the argument to facts he states he will ignore you, like anyone cares. But then he still continues to reply to the people he has 'ignored'.

Coming from a guy called "Marxist", I dont need to even respond to that.

But go ahead and ignore how your fanboi buddy "omitted" crucial facts that, in reality, completely invalidated his arguments when I pointed them out. Go right ahead.

enough of the bickering, let's get back to the topic at hand, how the T34 is a piece of crap. is relic listening?

They are listening Akula. Read around the forums, and you'll notice they are posting here personally. They talk about possible future changes, and absolutely everything being said here is at least being skimmed through.

That said, just because we bicker around and cry for something, doesn't mean we are going to get it. They have access to tools and testing environments that we don't, and they don't want to rush things.

--------------------------------

Now @Raw mentioned something interesting: "Nobody is going to spend 100+ fuel on a vehicle dedicated to destroy infantry". This is completely unfounded, man.

The T-34 is a good indication that this is true. If you rush it, it is actually very good against infantry and there's very little in the battlefield to stop it at that point. Another example, an even BETTER example, is the Ostwind, another amazing AI tank, that costs more than 100+ fuel, and is VERY popular.

The problem with the T-34, is that it doesn't have staying power. Its good when it arrives, but it can't do anything that the T70 already can't, for a fraction of the cost.

Yes, the T-34 is very good against infantry, but it won't move around the battlefield as fast, or kill enough units to justify tis cost before a PIV or supported Ostwind arrives. The T70 comes way earlier than the T34, and has a lot more chances of repaying itself before the the T-34 can. Both tanks run useless at around the same time: when Ostheer fields medium tanks. (The T-34 can stay around this time, but a smart Soviet player will be aiming for SU-85's, not T-34's).

The Soviet army, like it or not, is very similar to the Americans. Extremely so. There's no need to reinvent the wheel. I am still of the opinion that a global upgrade for the T-34 will do wonders for the mid game, and help the metagame evolution.

Part of the reason why the Americans were interesting, is because there were valid reasons to jump back and forth between tiers, or to delay a tier, even though you could evolve. The massive difference between the Soviets and Americans, is that the Americans had versatile tanks, the Soviets only have specialized tanks, especially in T4.

The T-34 needs to be on par, or even better than a sherman was. It is the only, non doctrinal tank the soviets have with a turret. Making it AI is good and all, but an upgun that changes the role to match the PIV in role, not stats, would make the late game mid-late game much more interesting.

Another example, an even BETTER example, is the Ostwind, another amazing AI tank, that costs more than 100+ fuel, and is VERY popular.

The Ostwind actually rapes Infantry. You can't say the same about the T-34. The Ostwind also can deal with the T-34. Whereas the T-34 can deal with nothing the German fields. (Well, except if he got an Ostwind). The German has access to a quick PzIV follow-up. The SU-85 is everything but quick. You get stuck on the T-34 and that is that. Yes, it's a staying power problem.

Then there's the redundancy with the T-70. The T-70 is much better at screwing with infantry and costs less fuel, allowing for a quicker SU-85 followup. T-34 position simply doesn't make much sense in the game.

The T-34 needs to be on par, or even better than a sherman was. It is the only, non doctrinal tank the soviets have with a turret.

And that's why I say that having a tank for "good" AI purposes and only "decent" AV is not feasable for the Soviets. As you say, it's your only turreted tank, you already have plenty of AI options, Doctrinal and Non-Doctrinal, it costs a lot and it comes out in a timeframe when Ostheer starts pressuring you with their Armor; when you need AV the most.

Agreed on all points, except I'll elaborate a little more.

The T-34 can deal with anything the German fields, prior to T4 (if well micro'd). Its not good against the PIV because it got buffed, but it used to defeat any T3 tank back when it was cheaper, if properly handled. when the T34 was cheaper, it snumbers were its strength, but not anymore. The cost increase is, in my opinion, a good move (same with StuG, btw). You cannot have cheap medium vehicles in this game, or spam ensues. Medium vehicles require less upkeep than infantry in the long run, and that means you need to pay more up front. So that much is good.

The problem I see, with making the T-34 simply "stronger", is that it makes the T70 useless and it diverts into a "rush T34 every single time" strategy. Then games will be pretty much decided on who loses its first medium vehicle. Since Soviet vehicles arrive earlier and are cheaper, the consequences for the German army will be harsher.

This is where the global upgrade comes in. Even after the upgrade, the PIV should defeat the T34 one on one (close defeat). However, the Soviet gets more bang for the same buck, and he can field multiple T-34's to destroy German armor.

While we are at it, this global upgrade could be an Anti-Tank tactics package, which enables the use of the Ram ability. It gives you a reason to keep spending money on T-34's late game, it delays SU-85's slightly (since Ram is very useful against heavy tanks).

Agree with Combatmuffin.

And at similar Muni cost, Ost can maintain pace with the upgunned t34s and their ram, with Shreks (which is a tier 3.5 option), or continue teching to heavier armor alongside Sov at similar timings.

I don't think the T70 would be useless if the T34 was buffed. it would still be a deadly little tank.

Sov fanboi balance logic: "If you buff one Sov unit you have to buff the rest too, or they become 'useless'"

If they buff the T-34, they need to do it in a way that prevents the T70 from being turned obsolete. The biggest advantage the T70 has, is that it is very inexpensive, so it frees up resources to fork your strategies...

If they buff the T-34, they need to do it in a way that prevents the T70 from being turned obsolete. The biggest advantage the T70 has, is that it is very inexpensive, so it frees up resources to fork your strategies...

I would lower the fuel cost on the T-70 to 40 or 45, tbh.

So a better T34 and a cheaper T70.

riiiiiight.

saw it coming:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/4603/t-3476-feels-plain-pathetic/post/55424

So a better T34 and a cheaper T70.

riiiiiight.

Yes, because currently noone builds T3. SU-85 too good, T3 too bad.

T70 is insane in team games. lowering cost would just mean more spam!

So buff all tiers so Sov builds all tiers.

Reference:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/4603/t-3476-feels-plain-pathetic/post/55424

This is getting genuinely retarded.