Hi all,
So we all know how useless the vet abililites of grens/cons are. I've made this thread so we can all discuss improvements.
I am updating this post with the suggestions so far.
Suggestions so far:
1) Mirror UKF vet1 for both (grens AND cons) these bolt-action rifle infantry (increased sight in cover when stationary).
2) Keep tripwire flares for cons, change gren medkits to mirror UKF ones, but unlocked at vet1.
3) Sandbags for grens at vet 1
4) Passive, slow healing for grens instead of spend-muni kits.
5) Stronger and cheaper Med-kits: to heal to complete health and cost 20 munitions.
6) Cons get 'Hit the Dirt' at vet1?
Change to gren/conscript vet1
1 Dec 2015, 03:00 AM
#1
Posts: 509
1 Dec 2015, 03:03 AM
#2
Posts: 304
I think that med kits are potentially very useful with some changes. Maybe even just allowing a unit to heal itself, or have an aura effect for healing might make it more viable? Would that be too strong?
As for cons, I kind of like their trip wire. Maybe just let it be shift queued to make it more usable and less micro intensive would go a long way?
As for cons, I kind of like their trip wire. Maybe just let it be shift queued to make it more usable and less micro intensive would go a long way?
1 Dec 2015, 03:06 AM
#3
Posts: 521
Trip wires are good for conscripts, but they are on every single Soviet infantry vet 1, which is pretty useless. Same with Soviet vehicles, German tanks get BLITZ as their vet 1 ability. What do Soviet tanks get? To cap points, which I'm sure is very useful in tank combat.
Has been brought up loads of times, but Relic hasn't acknowledged it yet.
Has been brought up loads of times, but Relic hasn't acknowledged it yet.
1 Dec 2015, 07:03 AM
#4
Posts: 509
I like the tripwire too, but i posted it as a suggestion for cons too cause i think sight buff is more handy and I didn't want accusations of being biased. Sight buff I think is best. Cons & grens are meant to fight defensively i.e. find cover and stick to it, far away if you're gren, closer up if you're con cause of their bolt actions which are crappy if firing on the move. [As in lets be clear, I'm not saying you can't use these guys to push, be aggressive and cap territory but at a tactical (i.e. squad vs squad) level they're meant to fight in a defensive, stationary manner]
Tommies will mantain their sight advantage because of artillery flare upgrade.
I'd be ok with medkits if they made them an upgrade like tommy healing though. Except that it only unlocks at vet1.
Also, I completely sympathize with the soviet tank vet being crap but can we plz keep the thread on cons & grens? One unit at a time
Tommies will mantain their sight advantage because of artillery flare upgrade.
I'd be ok with medkits if they made them an upgrade like tommy healing though. Except that it only unlocks at vet1.
Also, I completely sympathize with the soviet tank vet being crap but can we plz keep the thread on cons & grens? One unit at a time
1 Dec 2015, 08:45 AM
#5
Posts: 571
I would very much rather gren just getting a combat performance buff, maybe a received accuracy buff or something.
1 Dec 2015, 08:54 AM
#6
Posts: 509
I would very much rather gren just getting a combat performance buff, maybe a received accuracy buff or something.
Its the design philosophy. Vet 1 only unlocks things, except for okw volks and stuka zu fuss.
Combat buffs would be vet 2 or 3. I agree that grens are too fragile.
So, any ideas about the vet1? How do you like the sight buff? I'd say just buff sight by 5. The long range infantry should atleast be able to shoot at, well, long range.
1 Dec 2015, 09:14 AM
#7
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
Ostheer Medkits need to be also usable on the squads themselves and be slightly cheaper. You can already get quite a lot of staying power using the ability+HT, but at the moment the ability does not have much use outside of this scenario due to relatively high cost and the fact that you need 2 squads to make it work.
Tripwire flares are already quite good; People just do not use them because they lack the APM or they just forget about them altogether.
Tripwire flares are already quite good; People just do not use them because they lack the APM or they just forget about them altogether.
1 Dec 2015, 09:15 AM
#8
Posts: 1653
Ostheer Medkits need to be also usable on the squads themselves and be slightly cheaper. You can already get quite a lot of staying power using the ability+HT, but at the moment the ability does not have much use outside of this scenario due to relatively high cost and the fact that you need 2 squads to make it work.
Tripwire flares are already quite good; People just do not use them because they lack the APM or they just forget about them altogether.
Just change the medkit as the UKF and it's fine!
1 Dec 2015, 11:11 AM
#9
Posts: 509
Just change the medkit as the UKF and it's fine!
+1.
I personally have a slight preference toward slight buff though cause:
1) UKF healing is very good for blobbing.
2) Better sight in cover - better coordination with mg
1 Dec 2015, 13:02 PM
#10
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Tripwire is fine.
Medkit needs changes.
NOT EVERY SINGLE INFANTRY SQUAD needs the same vet1 ability for EFA.
Medkit needs changes.
NOT EVERY SINGLE INFANTRY SQUAD needs the same vet1 ability for EFA.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
1 Dec 2015, 13:07 PM
#11
Posts: 509
Tripwire is fine.
Medkit needs changes.
NOT EVERY SINGLE INFANTRY SQUAD needs the same vet1 ability for EFA.
Sure, but sight>>healing or trips.
You have alternatives? The whole point is the the thread is to suggest alternatives, not necessarily sight. But should be better.
I personally advocate a sight buff.
Also: rifles and volks will have other things
1 Dec 2015, 14:40 PM
#12
Posts: 1705
gren vet 1 =sandbags
1 Dec 2015, 14:53 PM
#13
Posts: 509
1 Dec 2015, 14:53 PM
#14
Posts: 22
I would just like to see the medkits heal a squad to full health and maybe a cost reduction to 20 min. Then it'll be useful to keep damaged teamweapons on the front without worrying about the first shot killing your gunner.
1 Dec 2015, 14:56 PM
#15
Posts: 509
It is my hope that once we've narrowed down the best 3 or 4 things for vet1, to make a separate thread with poll so we can all see what's most popular.
Please also suggest for conscripts!
Also: we have a few suggestions now, so lets narrow it down. Things to focus on:
gameplay considerations: i.e. does it fit the intended role.
Balance considerations: will it make grens or cons OP relative to other mainline infantry.
Please also suggest for conscripts!
Also: we have a few suggestions now, so lets narrow it down. Things to focus on:
gameplay considerations: i.e. does it fit the intended role.
Balance considerations: will it make grens or cons OP relative to other mainline infantry.
1 Dec 2015, 15:00 PM
#16
Posts: 509
I would just like to see the medkits heal a squad to full health and maybe a cost reduction to 20 min. Then it'll be useful to keep damaged teamweapons on the front without worrying about the first shot killing your gunner.
Ty. Have put it in.
1 Dec 2015, 15:01 PM
#17
2 
Posts: 1108
I have to admit that I never used tripwire. For over 2 years not a single time 
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1 Dec 2015, 15:07 PM
#18
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
gren vet 1 =sandbags
Con vet1=buyable DPs then?
Generalization is good, right?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
1 Dec 2015, 15:09 PM
#19
Posts: 34
I agree, cons trip wire is perfect, grens med need changes. In the meantime, we have mirror situation with tech: blitzkrieg is very useful, capturing points... this abililty should have t70, maybe t34-76. But IS-2, KV-2 ? Really?
1 Dec 2015, 16:55 PM
#20
Posts: 270 | Subs: 1
Conscript could get the Hit The Dirt! ability when they vet up, without needing the commander.
Although then the commander abilities may need switching round. Some replacements could be ATG camo, PPSHs or rapid conscription, depending which abilities the commander already has in it.
Although then the commander abilities may need switching round. Some replacements could be ATG camo, PPSHs or rapid conscription, depending which abilities the commander already has in it.
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