[Suggestion] Rework of Pz IV vet 2 bonus

My thinking is simple:

The PIV doesn't really have a relative armor advantage anymore, after the zis gun buff and UKF release.

So its vet 2 bonus (+30% armor) doesn't do much, if compared with other mediums.

Simple suggestion: mirror PIV vet 2 with T34 Vet 2 (Increased RoF)

Please suggest alternatives if you disagree with the suggestion but agree that some change should be there for the PIV.

With poll. Please vote.

Also: Please do not discuss other units' veterancy in this thread. This thread is for PIV only.

Its vet2 isn't supposed to make it effective head on vs anti tank guns.
The bonus allows it to easily shrug off infantry AT and get huge edge over mediums.

Its vet2 isn't supposed to make it effective head on vs anti tank guns.

Of-course is should not. I never claimed that it should, please don't try to steer this into something else entirely.

The bonus allows it to easily shrug off infantry AT and get huge edge over mediums.

This is exactly the point which I disagree about. I don't think that it gives a good advantage anymore. However, that's why the poll is there. So everyone can vote on it.

Its vet2 isn't supposed to make it effective head on vs anti tank guns.
The bonus allows it to easily shrug off infantry AT and get huge edge over mediums.

Vet 2 Ostheer Pz IV is shit, it will get penetrated by every bazooka shot it takes.

Vet 2 Ostheer Pz IV is shit, it will get penetrated by every bazooka shot it takes.

Every shot being a 45% chance to deflect at point-blank, of course.

agreed

In order for the PIV to have a future it will simply need to come out faster.

In order for the PIV to have a future it will simply need to come out faster.

Because as fast as any other medium tank in game is too late, right?

Basically I think the increased armor doesn't do much, just adds rng chance for deflection. Thats it.

Doesn't make the armor reliably bounce other mediums/ATguns. Which is why its not a good bonus. Nor am I advocating that it should make thse things bounce.

The solution is obviously to replace it with a better bonus. I personally favour an offensive vet.

Or we could increase hp. For those who want a defensive vet.

Every time my p4 gets to vet2 it is like it went into god mode, its the hell of different tank. This one is actually one of the strongest vet bonuses in whole game.

Every time my p4 gets to vet2 it is like it went into god mode, its the hell of different tank. This one is actually one of the strongest vet bonuses in whole game.

What, exactly, changes? Idk cause I'm not really seeing that difference. As compared to, say, t34 going vet2.

How do you play it?

What, exactly, changes? Idk cause I'm not really seeing that difference. As compared to, say, t34 going vet2.

How do you play it?

Problem with p4 is that it dies very quickly because every other medium can penetrate it easily. For example the cromwell wins against p4 basically in every situation if they both are on same vet level. Not to mention at-guns have 100% chance to penetrate it. But on the other hand the tank has great AI capabilities and is good for flanking and pushing back infantry, or even wiping it on retreat. Sadly it means overextension. With skirts enemy medium tanks cant penetrate it as easily and it can run to closest stug or pak support. Mind that RoF vet would change nothing as p4 gun has trouble with penetrating tanks, it can ofc but the p4 is mainly the infantry wiping machine. It also has great 5% stacking RoF bulletins that make it crazy vs inf when stacked

As for t-34 I havent seen the tank in game for at least 6 months. But back when it was used it was commonly claimed that p4 vet is much, much better than t-34 one as it couldnt penetrate armor so every vet2 vs vet2 fight ended up with p4 winning. If you ment t-34/85 then it benefits from its vet more than p4 would because it has lower armor and better penetration.

EDIT: You also should remember that zooks penetrate p4 armor quite reliably before vet2. All you need is double zooked REs and a rifle nade and you can kill lone uncoucious p4. I used to play with liut into zook tech for REs some time ago and it was really great against ostheer medium armor. Now with AI tweaks on captain you want even need to tech zooks to get that effect. With skirts zooks have lots of problems to kill p4 unless they are massed. But massed zooks kill even the tiger, so you know...

Because as fast as any other medium tank in game is too late, right?

Play the game katitof.

Because as fast as any other medium tank in game is too late, right?

It doesn't perform to justify its current teching cost. I would pick a sherman over a pz4 everyday.

Don't build pz 4,build stugs.Every serious ost player knows that.
Don't have luxury for overpriced junk with less penetration than bazooka at 110.

meanwhile T34 cries in the corner

meanwhile T34 cries in the corner

Agreed, that thing deserves a slight pen buff at near range. I had a 1v1 today which exemplifies this sort of RnG.

Had an overextended panther which I was retreating. The sov player rushed in a t34 to score the kill. Panther bounced 3 shots at near, on the frontal armor. His t34 got into range of my pak, and died. I felt a bit bad for the soviet player at that point.

Bloody RNG. Needs to not be that game-changing.

Problem with p4 is that it dies very quickly because every other medium can penetrate it easily. For example the cromwell wins against p4 basically in every situation if they both are on same vet level. Not to mention at-guns have 100% chance to penetrate it. But on the other hand the tank has great AI capabilities and is good for flanking and pushing back infantry, or even wiping it on retreat. Sadly it means overextension. With skirts enemy medium tanks cant penetrate it as easily and it can run to closest stug or pak support. Mind that RoF vet would change nothing as p4 gun has trouble with penetrating tanks, it can ofc but the p4 is mainly the infantry wiping machine. It also has great 5% stacking RoF bulletins that make it crazy vs inf when stacked

As for t-34 I havent seen the tank in game for at least 6 months. But back when it was used it was commonly claimed that p4 vet is much, much better than t-34 one as it couldnt penetrate armor so every vet2 vs vet2 fight ended up with p4 winning. If you ment t-34/85 then it benefits from its vet more than p4 would because it has lower armor and better penetration.

EDIT: You also should remember that zooks penetrate p4 armor quite reliably before vet2. All you need is double zooked REs and a rifle nade and you can kill lone uncoucious p4. I used to play with liut into zook tech for REs some time ago and it was really great against ostheer medium armor. Now with AI tweaks on captain you want even need to tech zooks to get that effect. With skirts zooks have lots of problems to kill p4 unless they are massed. But massed zooks kill even the tiger, so you know...

Exactly why I suggested the change to its vet. The armor buff has no effect on its performance, increased RoF would atleast help it in its current role (good AI, mediocre AT)

Or change it to a hp buff if defensive vet is sought